Solution to covid?

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

Antivax propaganda and lack of understanding of %'s and maths doesn't surprise me.

Vaccines are extremely effective, but none 100% so.

Try this.

If you imagine a hypothetical scenario in which 100% of the population is double vaccinated, then 100% of people with COVID, and in hospital with COVID, will also have had both jabs.

So you work it out. if you can.

Stop firehosing.

 

[HeuristicMonkey]

Indeed but these, primarily, are those who have underlying health conditions or are elderly. A 42% reduction in admissions though would greatly help reduce the burden on ICU's in the NHS. And even more so when there are currently nineteen thousand NHS staff unable to work due to either having Covid or having to isolate. Covid, annual Winter pressures and staff absence in large numbers are exactly why we should be doing all we can to lessen the chances we too will end up in hospital. What I still fail to understand on all these Covid debates, is no sane person has ever said a vaccine or booster will stop you transmitting or catching Covid. They are taken to lessen the chances that you will become seriously ill and need to be hospitalised. And it isn't mandatory. Have them if you wish, don't if you don't want to. Everyone's own personal choice, but I believe any chance to lessen the likelihood of me ending up in hospital and to ease the burden on the NHS is the right thing to do.

True, the only proven way - for any respiratory disease - to lessen spreading is wearing protection, social distancing so as not to catch/spread it, until a true cure is discovered and distributed. Anything else is rhetoric and conjecture based on personal opinion - of which I've read on here since I posted the original article, much to my amusement (how did we get upright and learn to fly)

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

Post one of your stupid pictures to yourself please.

You obviously didn't understand the scenario first time round. I am very kindly giving you a second try.

Antivax propaganda and lack of understanding of %'s and maths doesn't surprise me.

Vaccines are extremely effective, but none 100% so.

Try this.

If you imagine a hypothetical scenario in which 100% of the population is double vaccinated, then 100% of people with COVID, and in hospital with COVID, will also have had both jabs.

So you work it out. if you can.

Stop firehosing.

 

[SamBally]

Antivax propaganda and lack of understanding of %'s and maths doesn't surprise me.

Vaccines are extremely effective, but none 100% so.

Try this.

If you imagine a hypothetical scenario in which 100% of the population is double vaccinated, then 100% of people with COVID, and in hospital with COVID, will also have had both jabs.

So you work it out. if you can.

Stop firehosing.

If I read it right surely that means the vaccination program has been extremely effective. 100% of patients in hospital with Covid does not mean 100% of people who took the vaccine. It is two different things. 100% of vaccinated hospital patients with Covid will require far fewer resources (ventilators etc, specially trained staff on ICU wards etc). 100% vaccine uptake will also result in much milder symptoms, far fewer actual hospitalizations, and far fewer deaths. On a like-for-like basis if 100% were not vaccinated there would be a much higher % of all the above.

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

and for @Altair

StIlL wAiTIng

 

[SamBally]

During this very very very long weight, can he also fetch a left-handed screw driver and a sky hook and a tin of tartan paint?

Lol!

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

If I read it right surely that means the vaccination program has been extremely effective. 100% of patients in hospital with Covid does not mean 100% of people who took the vaccine. It is two different things. 100% of vaccinated hospital patients with Covid will require far fewer resources (ventilators etc, specially trained staff on ICU wards etc). 100% vaccine uptake will also result in much milder symptoms, far fewer actual hospitalizations, and far fewer deaths. On a like-for-like basis if 100% were not vaccinated there would be a much higher % of all the above.

Yes, and as more and more of the population get vaccinated etc., etc. The difference comes as antivaxxers rant on about vaccines not working, they go with the premise that any vaccine is 100% effective, but that is their propaganda, and their need to cover up their own misinformation. It is and always has been classed as firehosing. No one has ever, in the lifetime of vaccines, ever said they are 100% effective. But that is the antivax ridiculousness and the page they keep turning to as 'fact'.

As of hospitalisations today, it means the vaccine has been highly effective. If you compare how many were in hospital last year, how many were seriously ill and dying, to this time last year. The figures are way down. I'll leave a link to Oxford University Centre for Evidence Based Medicine where, the 'scenario' was taken from and the article is very informative, where you can check the numbers as stated above and it is 'evidence based'.

But, although figures are down, unfortunately, right now, in hospitals across the UK, the seriously ill, and sadly those dying, over 98% are the unvaccinated. This is the difference.

COVID: the reason cases are rising among the double vaccinated – it’s not because vaccines aren’t working — Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM), University of Oxford

Sir Patrick Vallance, the UK’s chief scientific adviser, has announced that 40% of people admitted to hospital with COVID in the UK have had two doses of a coronavirus vaccine. At first glance, this rings very serious alarm bells, but it shouldn’t. The vaccines are still working very well.

www.cebm.ox.ac.uk

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

This is exactly why I bang on about being uneducated. After looking at that hypothetical scenario ^^^^^^^ from @TwoWhalesInAPool and after googling 'firehosing! for 10 mins - I still don't get it. Either the maths is wrong or the reasoning. I do have an O level in maths ya know, grade C (which is a pass!)

 

[elwoodbluz1966]

 

[SamBally]

Yes, and as more and more of the population get vaccinated etc., etc. The difference comes as antivaxxers rant on about vaccines not working, they go with the premise that any vaccine is 100% effective, but that is their propaganda, and their need to cover up their own misinformation. It is and always has been classed as firehosing. No one has ever, in the lifetime of vaccines, ever said they are 100% effective. But that is the antivax ridiculousness and the page they keep turning to as 'fact'.

As of hospitalisations today, it means the vaccine has been highly effective. If you compare how many were in hospital last year, how many were seriously ill and dying, to this time last year. The figures are way down. I'll leave a link to Oxford University Centre for Evidence Based Medicine where, the 'scenario' was taken from and the article is very informative, where you can check the numbers as stated above and it is 'evidence based'.

But, although figures are down, unfortunately, right now, in hospitals across the UK, the seriously ill, and sadly those dying, over 98% are the unvaccinated. This is the difference.

COVID: the reason cases are rising among the double vaccinated – it’s not because vaccines aren’t working — Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM), University of Oxford

Sir Patrick Vallance, the UK’s chief scientific adviser, has announced that 40% of people admitted to hospital with COVID in the UK have had two doses of a coronavirus vaccine. At first glance, this rings very serious alarm bells, but it shouldn’t. The vaccines are still working very well.

www.cebm.ox.ac.uk

Informative post and link, thanks.

I would add in today's Guardian it is being reported 1 in 45 people in England last week had Covid, 1 in 30 in London.

The number of NHS staff off sick with Covid is rapidly rising.

Not forgetting the usual ailments such as winter flu etc.

These Covid deniers are extremely dangerous people who not only take the underfunded NHS for granted but do not understand just how close to collapse it really is. Include GP practices and NHS dentists etc. They also support cuts in the NHS and they think the staff are overpaid and that their pensions are too generous.

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

This is exactly why I bang on about being uneducated. After looking at that hypothetical scenario ^^^^^^^ from @TwoWhalesInAPool and after googling 'firehosing! for 10 mins - I still don't get it. Either the maths is wrong or the reasoning. I do have an O level in maths ya know, grade C (which is a pass!)

Firehosing is a propaganda tool where lots of misinformation about 'something' is posted over and over again with no regard for truth or factual evidence. The misinformation is bombed onto all types of media platforms, newspapers, tv etc. so fighting against it can become almost impossible, such is the trickery and lies of the propaganda that targets people who have little ability, or desire to check what is factually correct or the truth. Hence the lie then becomes their truth. It is propaganda in the extreme. (spraying lies and covering everyone in them so they have no chance to dry off in the truth).

''They're literally firehosing so many lies into the ether that we'll all get exhausted chasing them all down. Also: it's to make people start questioning what is "truth".''

The maths isn't wrong. It is tricky to understand. Just know, that the more people in the population get vaccinated (and because vaccines aren't 100% effective) then the numbers of the vaccinated in hospital rise, but not to any great level. Nothing like it was last year which shows how well the vaccines/booster are working

The vaccines/booster are there to protect against the serious symptoms, those that will make you feel really unwell, where you end up in hospital on a ventilator and/or leave you will hellish and perhaps a lifetime of health problems, or kill you. Being vaccinated protects you in that way, protects you and those around you against those awful health conditions.

The unvaccinated are not protected.

This is the difference, and it is why COVID ICU's are now filling up with unvaccinated patients who will end up suffocating to death or drowning in their own fluids. Because that is what a Covid death is. Suffocation or drowning. Beyond sad.

It is so cruel, the antivax propaganda has scared so many with nonsense. Attacking genuine fears with antivax misinformation and those fears end up in the deaths of so many innocent people, who were unsure or scared, and just wanted reassurance that the vaccine was okay, but, the rabbit hole of antivax cuntery hit them like a sledgehammer and that is that.

 

[SamBally]

Brilliant post and I will just copy and paste it from now on. I also didn't know what "fire hosing" is although I understood the propaganda it describes. Fire hose will now be added to my Covid armory.

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

 

[elwoodbluz1966]

Really? These vaccines are at best working for a few weeks, the efficacy wanes very rapidly. There you go again, "98% of deaths are in the unvaccinated", this is patently untrue, but I suppose the more often you repeat it, the more you will believe it.

Vaccines only work for weeks ?? Wtf do you get that utter garbage from ? This is exactly why people like you are dangerous fake news spreaders. This is worthy of TWO dogs.

 

[SamBally]

Lol worthy of 'two dogs', now that was amusing.