Incel

[MrFishy]

See your still doing it.

Let me help you out..... there 70 million people in the UK. Each week almost 2 women are murder and only 1 in 10 was born in the UK to white parents.

That means if your a white woman you stand more chance of being killed by a falling tree branch than being a murdered.

 

[SamBally]

only 1 in 10 was born in the UK to white parents.

You'll see lots more of this rancid racist shite from DOA. Apparently, in DOAs incel world, murder only counts if you are a "white woman" and even then it is irrelevant because according to DOA 100 women "white" get killed by falling branches every year.

 

[Bad_Influence]

And Sam does it again.

 

[SamBally]

Why don't you report me Bad_Incel, or iggy me, instead of whining on all the threads like a small baby?



Btw, you have a lot in common with DOA, you two will get on just great.

 

[MrFishy]

Stop making this about me and get back on subject.... if you can.

 

[SamBally]

See your still doing it.

Let me help you out..... there 70 million people in the UK. Each week almost 2 women are murder and only 1 in 10 was born in the UK to white parents.

That means if your a white woman you stand more chance of being killed by a falling tree branch than being a murdered.

 

[MrFishy]

Looks like you cant .....

 

[CrazyCatLady]

Men usually use lethal force when attempting suicide, women tend not to hence it fails.

Then we have a family courts system which is detrimental to men.

With Covid, it's primarily men who have lost jobs, hence the expected role of bread winner has relegated their lives to being "useless" which leads to a rise in male suicide, historically noted in the 1930's during the great depression and more recently after the 2008 crash.

The rise of media which wrongly linked sexual freedom to feminism in the 70's wrongly to create media headlines which linked sexual freedoms to actual feminist issues, hence the "Sole Partner" rate has dropped like a rock.

Which has reduced marriage to being "Old Fashioned" and not "Progressive".

White males are the lowest performing strata of education currently.

All these things add up.

What's funny is that women are 51% of the population.

It was women who pushed for monogamy originally, due to the older wives not wishing to be pushed out of the line of succession.

Seems having ones cake and eating it to is not the best way to live for women.

They are chasing a minority (due to more women being pushed into higher end jobs for equality rotas) of successful males who can be secure and provide a "Better" future.

Hardly surprising there has become a male underclass of Incels, just as there is now a female underclass which don't live up to the "Expectations" of those males who are successful.

*Had to cut this reply into 2 parts, so bare with me!
I feel quite reluctant to post against you, Moriarty, because what I’ve seen you post so far, I have a shadow of respect forming for your words. They’re intelligent, wise-almost, so a part of me is a little nervous at the response I’ll get. But this post….(tuts)….

So, meh…

Men usually use………not to hence it fails.

I get this is a fact, but with any short sharp facts, you miss out the reason as to why there is that difference. Suicide is a complicated matter, no matter the gender, so I don’t want to belittle or downplay any part of it. Nevertheless, men’s suicides tend to be out of punishment- either for themselves or others. Afterall, more men are involved in murder-suicides of their children. Punishment is very much a factor in male suicide, whereas it isn’t in female suicides. The more dramatic and memorable, the more devastating to the person (usually a woman) that they want to punish.


Then we have a……detrimental to men.

But it never used to be. Again, at one time in history, the children belonged to the man. While both parents are the ideal, there is significant research to back up why a child generally goes to the mother (i.e. impact on the child’s psychological wellbeing).

However- flip side- when I was a researcher, I was doing research on the one-child family- lots of stuff from China, especially, but also lots of stuff from UK, Australia, Europe and the UK. Had over 100 participants of real people, but also did extensive journal research, books- you name it, I read it. Anyway, more specifically- the research was about the one-child family structure- mental health, psychological adaptability to new situations, socialisation- and there were comparisons to different sibling structures.
And the conclusions showed that it didn’t look good for single-parents and only children, UNLESS the lone parent was the father. Less mental health issues in teen and young adulthood, than only-children of lone mothers.

I’m not going to lie- I work within the family court system and yes, it is biased towards the mother. So are the police when it comes to domestic violence issues. But again, I repeat my first statement- women have not always had rights to their children, so maybe the male is getting a taste of his own medicine.


With Covid, it's primarily men who have lost…… after the 2008 crash.

I’ve looked for the stats and actually, we had lower employment/higher unemployment in 2010, than we did at the start or during the pandemic in the labour market (Employment in the UK - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk) where most men will be employed and where there were job loses during the pandemic. Haven’t looked at a comparison to see if male suicide was at a high back then and while I can understand that job losses and economic impotency is a trigger for feelings of uselessness, it has to also be a part of the man’s mindset that he has to be the bread-winner and his identity as a man depends on that. Men with a healthy mindset will simply go out and get another job or failing that, look at how he can adapt or learn other roles. He sees his marriage/relationship as a partnership, where she might have to be the bread-winner, when he can’t and vice versus.


Yes, there might be depression struggles…………. "Sole Partner" rate has dropped like a rock.

I think I need you to clarify this point a little better before I can argue with it. Are you saying that the media are responsible for the concept that monogamy has been pushed out by feminism (effectively, promoting promiscuity)?

Maybe I agree, but I’d need clarification on what you mean. Nevertheless, women were in some ways sexually free before the rise of feminism- else you wouldn’t have had so many babies stuck in Irish baby homes for one! Believe me, my grandmother was no feminist, but she was certainly a goer and she’d calmed down a little, before the Female Eunuch hit the shelves (not that Germaine Greer is a very good example of a feminist, despite her fame!).

Furthermore, I don’t necessarily think feminism is completely to blame. How about contraception? Women being in charge of that rather than having to depend on the man to provide a ‘rubber’? Pregnancy/a child was the only way to prove cheating beyond being caught in the act or admission. Pregnancy also tied a woman to one man (unless you were my grandmother or any of her sisters) whereas the pill meant you could be a virgin every Friday night.
But contraception wasn’t only in the females favour- it would be a mistake to think that this was a feminist concept (yaha- play on words- contraception/concept. Having fun tonight, leavemealone!). The man could now blame her for the pregnancy and so was born the term ‘trapping him’.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

Part 2-
Which has reduced………..not "Progressive".

Perhaps marriage is seen as old fashioned and not seen as progressive, because it has links to religion- not because of the affirmation of love. We have so many different types of partnership ceremonies now that the connotation of a ‘marriage’ may not fit the type of people that are in that partnership. Family structures have changed over time- maybe that does have links to feminism, maybe it has links to the rise of same- sex partnerships and sexual fluidity, maybe it has links to economics- maybe all three. Yet to put the blame solely on feminism would ignore the benefits that men get out of a more sexually free society.

White males are…………education currently.

This is very true, but this is not due to feminism or the rise of the woman. This is due to educational resources going to those who ‘under-represented’ in society. This is because all of a sudden, special educational schools were shut down and the mainstream schools had to cater for children who needed one-to-one support and they didn’t have the funds to support them and the rest of the class. Where white males were at one time the most achieving group, they were left to swim and girls, special ed, English as a 2nd language got all the additional tutors and resources.

This is not feminism’s fault- this is Labours. This down to the MEN in charge.


All these things add up.

Yeah, they do, but they don’t all boil down to the ‘woman’s fault’.

What's funny is that women are 51% …………..pushed out of the line of succession.

What now? My sight must be going, because I’m sure you said that women pushed for monogamy there and I’d like to see where you got that info from. Considering a woman was lucky if she got through childbirth, it was touch and go if she ever got to be an ‘older’ wife. One of my hobbies is ancestry and in the 1800’s, the amount of male relatives that had second wives absolutely outnumbers the women who survived their multiple childbirths to marry again.
Yep, we have longer lifespans. Yep, we were less likely to die in war or through a misfortune in a labour/farm job, but childbirth was one of the biggest dangers we faced and hey- we didn’t get into that predicament on our own!

Btw, marriage was an assurance that families didn’t marry brothers and sisters together to ensure the land stayed within the family. Feck all to do with women and more to do with the greed of men!


Seems having ones cake……to live for women.

Hang on, if we baked the cake, we should be able to eat it. This is a misogynistic comment if ever I read one. So, to be treated as an equal- to have equal pay, have rights over our own bodies and land, rights to vote and have a say in who runs our country/town, etc, rights to walk the street without fear of being attacked, be able to chose who we sleep with and how many people we sleep with- these rights, should they only be available to men then?
That’s the problem. Men viewing woman as a completely different species and not as humans. You think rights to a free life is a cake. That can only come from a gender that didn’t have to fight for his right be viewed as a human being.

That’s outright male privilege.

They are chasing a minority……underclass which don't live up to the "Expectations" of those males who are successful.

Again, not clear what you’re saying. Women are now chasing a minority of what? Well-to do men, but we can’t get them, because we pushed them out the good jobs? Is that it?

With the rise of feminism has come the breakdown of a financial hierarchy in relationships. True feminism (and I use that term, because there is toxic feminism too, just as there is toxic masculinity) is about equality; balance. If there are 10 good jobs available at £35ph and what’s needed is a certain qualification, then the best people for those jobs should get them. But that’s not how it was or is. Again, because women are seen as a lesser species- we have children & periods which equals sick time. Kids to look after, which means more sick time. We are still not seen as the attractive option and yet thankfully, the law says employers have to consider and actually employ us. We STILL do not get the high-powered jobs, because of what we can do and what we can achieve and companies STILL prefer men in certain roles.

Furthermore, maybe men need to lower their expectations for themselves and stop living to others. I work in Social care and it’s surprising how many men see that job as beneath them, and yet we are crying out for men to take these roles.

About 10 years ago, I began to see the rise of the beard. Everywhere, beards. At the time, I thought it was a fashion, but then my son told me it was a statement- men were growing their beards as form of heterosexual male solidarity- a push against the feminisation of men. It slowly melted into the Millennial, ‘woke’ fashion with little ponytails and tight trousers.
At the time, I saw the caveman connection. They were reverting back to a primal image and today I see that theory as possibly true. There were inklings of it back then.

With the birth of the Incel, it appears the primal man has not disappeared. He’s just found the internet.

 

[hell2bwith76]

*Had to cut this reply into 2 parts, so bare with me!
I feel quite reluctant to post against you, Moriarty, because what I’ve seen you post so far, I have a shadow of respect forming for your words. They’re intelligent, wise-almost, so a part of me is a little nervous at the response I’ll get. But this post….(tuts)….

So, meh…

Men usually use………not to hence it fails.

I get this is a fact, but with any short sharp facts, you miss out the reason as to why there is that difference. Suicide is a complicated matter, no matter the gender, so I don’t want to belittle or downplay any part of it. Nevertheless, men’s suicides tend to be out of punishment- either for themselves or others. Afterall, more men are involved in murder-suicides of their children. Punishment is very much a factor in male suicide, whereas it isn’t in female suicides. The more dramatic and memorable, the more devastating to the person (usually a woman) that they want to punish.


Then we have a……detrimental to men.

But it never used to be. Again, at one time in history, the children belonged to the man. While both parents are the ideal, there is significant research to back up why a child generally goes to the mother (i.e. impact on the child’s psychological wellbeing).

However- flip side- when I was a researcher, I was doing research on the one-child family- lots of stuff from China, especially, but also lots of stuff from UK, Australia, Europe and the UK. Had over 100 participants of real people, but also did extensive journal research, books- you name it, I read it. Anyway, more specifically- the research was about the one-child family structure- mental health, psychological adaptability to new situations, socialisation- and there were comparisons to different sibling structures.
And the conclusions showed that it didn’t look good for single-parents and only children, UNLESS the lone parent was the father. Less mental health issues in teen and young adulthood, than only-children of lone mothers.

I’m not going to lie- I work within the family court system and yes, it is biased towards the mother. So are the police when it comes to domestic violence issues. But again, I repeat my first statement- women have not always had rights to their children, so maybe the male is getting a taste of his own medicine.


With Covid, it's primarily men who have lost…… after the 2008 crash.

I’ve looked for the stats and actually, we had lower employment/higher unemployment in 2010, than we did at the start or during the pandemic in the labour market (Employment in the UK - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk) where most men will be employed and where there were job loses during the pandemic. Haven’t looked at a comparison to see if male suicide was at a high back then and while I can understand that job losses and economic impotency is a trigger for feelings of uselessness, it has to also be a part of the man’s mindset that he has to be the bread-winner and his identity as a man depends on that. Men with a healthy mindset will simply go out and get another job or failing that, look at how he can adapt or learn other roles. He sees his marriage/relationship as a partnership, where she might have to be the bread-winner, when he can’t and vice versus.


Yes, there might be depression struggles…………. "Sole Partner" rate has dropped like a rock.

I think I need you to clarify this point a little better before I can argue with it. Are you saying that the media are responsible for the concept that monogamy has been pushed out by feminism (effectively, promoting promiscuity)?

Maybe I agree, but I’d need clarification on what you mean. Nevertheless, women were in some ways sexually free before the rise of feminism- else you wouldn’t have had so many babies stuck in Irish baby homes for one! Believe me, my grandmother was no feminist, but she was certainly a goer and she’d calmed down a little, before the Female Eunuch hit the shelves (not that Germaine Greer is a very good example of a feminist, despite her fame!).

Furthermore, I don’t necessarily think feminism is completely to blame. How about contraception? Women being in charge of that rather than having to depend on the man to provide a ‘rubber’? Pregnancy/a child was the only way to prove cheating beyond being caught in the act or admission. Pregnancy also tied a woman to one man (unless you were my grandmother or any of her sisters) whereas the pill meant you could be a virgin every Friday night.
But contraception wasn’t only in the females favour- it would be a mistake to think that this was a feminist concept (yaha- play on words- contraception/concept. Having fun tonight, leavemealone!). The man could now blame her for the pregnancy and so was born the term ‘trapping him’.

"you could be a virgin every Friday night " ?? are you serious ?. Once you are unfrocked then you can never be a Virgin again ,it`s Biological.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

"you could be a virgin every Friday night " ?? are you serious ?. Once you are unfrocked then you can never be a Virgin again ,it`s Biological.

Da-amn! I really have to watch the sarcasm and hypothetical language here, don't I?!

In other words, Friday 1- "Yes, Peter- this is my first time"; Friday 2- "Yes, James- this is my first time"

 

[hell2bwith76]

Da-amn! I really have to watch the sarcasm and hypothetical language here, don't I?!

In other words, Friday 1- "Yes, Peter- this is my first time"; Friday 2- "Yes, James- this is my first time"

I don`t make the rules

 

[Moriarty]

*Had to cut this reply into 2 parts, so bare with me!
I feel quite reluctant to post against you, Moriarty, because what I’ve seen you post so far, I have a shadow of respect forming for your words. They’re intelligent, wise-almost, so a part of me is a little nervous at the response I’ll get. But this post….(tuts)….

So, meh…

Men usually use………not to hence it fails.

I get this is a fact, but with any short sharp facts, you miss out the reason as to why there is that difference. Suicide is a complicated matter, no matter the gender, so I don’t want to belittle or downplay any part of it. Nevertheless, men’s suicides tend to be out of punishment- either for themselves or others. Afterall, more men are involved in murder-suicides of their children. Punishment is very much a factor in male suicide, whereas it isn’t in female suicides. The more dramatic and memorable, the more devastating to the person (usually a woman) that they want to punish.


Then we have a……detrimental to men.

But it never used to be. Again, at one time in history, the children belonged to the man. While both parents are the ideal, there is significant research to back up why a child generally goes to the mother (i.e. impact on the child’s psychological wellbeing).

However- flip side- when I was a researcher, I was doing research on the one-child family- lots of stuff from China, especially, but also lots of stuff from UK, Australia, Europe and the UK. Had over 100 participants of real people, but also did extensive journal research, books- you name it, I read it. Anyway, more specifically- the research was about the one-child family structure- mental health, psychological adaptability to new situations, socialisation- and there were comparisons to different sibling structures.
And the conclusions showed that it didn’t look good for single-parents and only children, UNLESS the lone parent was the father. Less mental health issues in teen and young adulthood, than only-children of lone mothers.

I’m not going to lie- I work within the family court system and yes, it is biased towards the mother. So are the police when it comes to domestic violence issues. But again, I repeat my first statement- women have not always had rights to their children, so maybe the male is getting a taste of his own medicine.


With Covid, it's primarily men who have lost…… after the 2008 crash.

I’ve looked for the stats and actually, we had lower employment/higher unemployment in 2010, than we did at the start or during the pandemic in the labour market (Employment in the UK - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk) where most men will be employed and where there were job loses during the pandemic. Haven’t looked at a comparison to see if male suicide was at a high back then and while I can understand that job losses and economic impotency is a trigger for feelings of uselessness, it has to also be a part of the man’s mindset that he has to be the bread-winner and his identity as a man depends on that. Men with a healthy mindset will simply go out and get another job or failing that, look at how he can adapt or learn other roles. He sees his marriage/relationship as a partnership, where she might have to be the bread-winner, when he can’t and vice versus.


Yes, there might be depression struggles…………. "Sole Partner" rate has dropped like a rock.

I think I need you to clarify this point a little better before I can argue with it. Are you saying that the media are responsible for the concept that monogamy has been pushed out by feminism (effectively, promoting promiscuity)?

Maybe I agree, but I’d need clarification on what you mean. Nevertheless, women were in some ways sexually free before the rise of feminism- else you wouldn’t have had so many babies stuck in Irish baby homes for one! Believe me, my grandmother was no feminist, but she was certainly a goer and she’d calmed down a little, before the Female Eunuch hit the shelves (not that Germaine Greer is a very good example of a feminist, despite her fame!).

Furthermore, I don’t necessarily think feminism is completely to blame. How about contraception? Women being in charge of that rather than having to depend on the man to provide a ‘rubber’? Pregnancy/a child was the only way to prove cheating beyond being caught in the act or admission. Pregnancy also tied a woman to one man (unless you were my grandmother or any of her sisters) whereas the pill meant you could be a virgin every Friday night.
But contraception wasn’t only in the females favour- it would be a mistake to think that this was a feminist concept (yaha- play on words- contraception/concept. Having fun tonight, leavemealone!). The man could now blame her for the pregnancy and so was born the term ‘trapping him’.

Damn Crazy, there's a lot to unpack there.

Great post

Ok, first point about Male suicide and lethality.
You kind of throw the conversation to murder suicide with the inclusion of stats for filicide.
In many cases when Fathers kill there own children it is due to forced separation, usually court ordered in divorce proceedings.
Counter to that, when women do commit filicide, it's often if the children are going to be removed, usually by the state and again court ordered.
So, indirectly, I could point to a later part when the court system has an actual casualty rate for both sides, sometimes mothers aren't actually fit to care for the children the court orders they take care of, the father would be a better parent.
That needs much more research though.

2nd Point, court system.
Ok your off on a tangent about single parenthood, yes the stats show that male single parents tend to have higher achieving kids, but....
Women who are single parents tend to get flak from society as a whole, whereas men who are single parents have a lot of latitude.
This springs from the "Maternal Instinct" idea where women are more naturally inclined to be care-givers.
Most studies I have read show women to be more emotion/compassion focused with children, where as men tend to more intellect/realism focused.
The difference is small, but it shows in grades and academic achievement, however the long term effects socially are not known.
Perhaps a more compassionate upbringing brings benefits to mental health and relationship stability in later life.
I don't know.
As for "maybe the male is getting a taste of his own medicine" I'm afraid I can only say that's an emotional/ideological reaction, probably not in the best interest of children.
No offence intended


3rd point.
Ok, this one is hard to quantify.
We have no suicide statistics for 2020-21, by design, the government has categorically refused to release them.
We also know that the unemployment figures are cooked, due to anyone they can sign up for a course, even if its how to re-write your CV is taken off the actual unemployment stats, add to this the massive rise in people with mental health problems which place them on the sick, so not counted.
Your point that "we had lower employment/higher unemployment in 2010, than we did at the start or during the pandemic in the labour market" does not take into account that
1. It was before and during.
2. Furlough payments were made for a long time hence keeping people employed.

Your statement "Men with a healthy mindset will simply go out and get another job or failing that, look at how he can adapt or learn other roles." has a few problems.
Most of those who lost their jobs were in the lower income bracket, which tends to have people in it that would have difficulty re-training.
Yes, that's harsh, but an economic fact.

4th point.
"Are you saying that the media are responsible for the concept that monogamy has been pushed out by feminism (effectively, promoting promiscuity"
Yes
Not lightly though, read the article from an ex Cosmopolitan journalist who was instructed to link feminism to sexual freedom.
Cant post links here so look up Sue Ellen Browder for reference.
Also try finding the Cosmopolitan_Hunsberger.pdf report.
As for contraception, yes that was a major part of sexual freedom, but the major driver of women's freedom was the tampon.

Anyway, Im drunk and flagging, can I answer the rest tomorrow lol

 

[CrazyCatLady]

Damn Crazy, there's a lot to unpack there.

Great post

Ok, first point about Male suicide and lethality.
You kind of throw the conversation to murder suicide with the inclusion of stats for filicide.
In many cases when Fathers kill there own children it is due to forced separation, usually court ordered in divorce proceedings.
Counter to that, when women do commit filicide, it's often if the children are going to be removed, usually by the state and again court ordered.
So, indirectly, I could point to a later part when the court system has an actual casualty rate for both sides, sometimes mothers aren't actually fit to care for the children the court orders they take care of, the father would be a better parent.
That needs much more research though.

2nd Point, court system.
Ok your off on a tangent about single parenthood, yes the stats show that male single parents tend to have higher achieving kids, but....
Women who are single parents tend to get flak from society as a whole, whereas men who are single parents have a lot of latitude.
This springs from the "Maternal Instinct" idea where women are more naturally inclined to be care-givers.
Most studies I have read show women to be more emotion/compassion focused with children, where as men tend to more intellect/realism focused.
The difference is small, but it shows in grades and academic achievement, however the long term effects socially are not known.
Perhaps a more compassionate upbringing brings benefits to mental health and relationship stability in later life.
I don't know.
As for "maybe the male is getting a taste of his own medicine" I'm afraid I can only say that's an emotional/ideological reaction, probably not in the best interest of children.
No offence intended


3rd point.
Ok, this one is hard to quantify.
We have no suicide statistics for 2020-21, by design, the government has categorically refused to release them.
We also know that the unemployment figures are cooked, due to anyone they can sign up for a course, even if its how to re-write your CV is taken off the actual unemployment stats, add to this the massive rise in people with mental health problems which place them on the sick, so not counted.
Your point that "we had lower employment/higher unemployment in 2010, than we did at the start or during the pandemic in the labour market" does not take into account that
1. It was before and during.
2. Furlough payments were made for a long time hence keeping people employed.

Your statement "Men with a healthy mindset will simply go out and get another job or failing that, look at how he can adapt or learn other roles." has a few problems.
Most of those who lost their jobs were in the lower income bracket, which tends to have people in it that would have difficulty re-training.
Yes, that's harsh, but an economic fact.

4th point.
"Are you saying that the media are responsible for the concept that monogamy has been pushed out by feminism (effectively, promoting promiscuity"
Yes
Not lightly though, read the article from an ex Cosmopolitan journalist who was instructed to link feminism to sexual freedom.
Cant post links here so look up Sue Ellen Browder for reference.
Also try finding the Cosmopolitan_Hunsberger.pdf report.
As for contraception, yes that was a major part of sexual freedom, but the major driver of women's freedom was the tampon.

Anyway, Im drunk and flagging, can I answer the rest tomorrow lol

Cool. Thank you- I look forward to it
That'll gimme a chance to chew over what you've already answered.

 

[Moriarty]

..... Went over 10k had to cut....

Ok part 2.

1. I didn't link the fall of marriage to directly to feminism, but to the rise in media provocation that it was old fashioned and women should have the same "apparent" freedoms as men do but without the actual equalisers (there's a point for you to play with ).

Added to that
"These liberalisations of divorce law, combined with changing attitudes and expectations of marriage, and the greater economic independence of women, all contributed to a rise in the number of divorces from 50,000 per year in 1971 to 150,000 a decade later. More recently the number of divorces has fallen steadily, although this may be more to do with the fact that fewer people are getting married in the first place, rather than a trend toward matrimonial bliss. Today, there are just two marriages for every divorce each year."
Quote from www.parliament.uk report "Divorce since 1900"

Note the "greater economic independence of women" is directly linked to feminisms drive for equality.

2. I agree with a lot of what you say, however, this trend hasn't appeared overnight, it has been in plain view for well over a decade.

‘The attainment of White British pupils is polarised by social class to a greater extent than any other ethnic groups. White British pupils from managerial and professional homes are one of the highest attaining groups, while White British pupils from working class homes are the lowest attaining groups’

‘White British students on average – boys and girls – are more likely than other ethnic groups to persist in low achievement [although] boys outnumber girls as low achievers by three to two. Nearly half of all low achievers are White British males.’

Quoted from Strand 2008.

Labours male members fault ?
Labours education ministers, 2001-2007
Estelle Morris.
Charles Clark
Ruth Kelly
Alan Johnson.

Then Labour had Ed Balls until 2010.. point there for that asshat lmao

Hardly "The Men's" fault when nearly half of the education ministers were women.

3. I never stated these were problems caused by women, they were caused by the changing nature of relationships between men, women, the community and the state.
I'll move on and say more about it in 4.

4. Okay, going to quote you on this and have some fun with it.

"Hang on, if we baked the cake, we should be able to eat it. This is a misogynistic comment if ever I read one. So, to be treated as an equal- to have equal pay, have rights over our own bodies and land, rights to vote and have a say in who runs our country/town, etc, rights to walk the street without fear of being attacked, be able to chose who we sleep with and how many people we sleep with- these rights, should they only be available to men then?
That’s the problem. Men viewing woman as a completely different species and not as humans. You think rights to a free life is a cake. That can only come from a gender that didn’t have to fight for his right be viewed as a human being.

That’s outright male privilege."

Your just throwing all the babies out with the bath water.

You want equal pay, take equal risk.
I don't have to dig up stats on workplace deaths do I?

Rights over your own bodies and land, you have them already, under law.

Right to vote, yep, got that to, in fact as the majority, you have more power to sway both politics and the market than men do.

Right to walk without fear, we all have that right, the fact we aren't comfortable doing it is societal not legal.
I don't know anyone who isn't cautious when alone in the dark, even us men who have to investigate all the bumps in the night

Choose who and how many people you can sleep with, again, you have that right.
To be judged on it however, is a very different question.

Now the real crux of the point, your last sentence in that statement.
So do you not think there are societal pressures on men to behave a certain way?
There are limits to what men can and cannot do.
Women have one major advantage that can never be taken away from them, it is socially unacceptable to be violent to them.
Which basically means men have no argument to however much of an asshole a women wants to be.
We have to grin and bear it.

The playing field is not equal, if my mate gets on my nerves I can slap him up the side of the head, he learns.

Which is playing into your 4th point and conclusion

What do women actually want from men?
Is it a partner, a provider, a lover, a casual lay, a friend, a good man, a bad boy, someone to love them, someone to change or is it subjective?
When women actually make up their mind what they want from men apart from "Not That" then perhaps we can have a real discussion on what is or is not equality

That question is what makes an Incel, it's a question that baffles academics and politicians.

I know I didn't examine in detail a lot of what you said for part 3 and 4, but the whole "Viewing women as a lesser species" kinda put me off.
For thousands of years men and women have co-operated against the harshest environments to form civilisations and societies which we in the west have equalised to the best of our abilities given the differences between our genders.

If you have any doubts about that, go visit Afghanistan right now.

 

[Moriarty]

Deleted and Edited.

It's basically pointless debating on this site as all you mainly do is 'compare 'stats and data'.

Not at all, opinions are valid.

All scientific data is brought about by 2 things, the will to ask the question and the will to provide an analysis.

Shame that science has become so politicised these days, government provides funding for the policies they promote.

Try getting a grant to say climate change isn't man made.
But you can get a grant for Icebergs are misogynistic.

 

[Moriarty]

"Women have one major advantage that can never be taken away from them, it is socially unacceptable to be violent to them.
Which basically means men have no argument to however much of an asshole a women wants to be.
We have to grin and bear it."

Besides it being 'socially unacceptable', It's actually due to the fact that the average man has more muscle than a woman and is therefore much stronger, reason for which it is unacceptable due to the danger a man can cause a woman if he hits her.
Testosterone plays a big part in it.


Being a man of science I thought you'd have been aware of this, instead of just focusing on the 'socially unacceptable'' part or did you just ignore it due to the 'socially unacceptable ' bit sitting better with your own agenda?


"The playing field is not equal, if my mate gets on my nerves I can slap him up the side of the head, he learns".

Why a man of science would want to slap his mate up the side of the head in order to make him 'learn' if he gets on your nerves, baffles me,

Men are stronger than women, on average?

Wow.

Women tend to mature quicker than men, also a fact I hope you agree with.

Women tend to avoid the physical realm of "Violence" I prefer hurt.

They tend to emotionally argue rather than physically.

Although physical "Cat Fights" happen they tend to be rare compared to the psychological fighting that takes place between girls and women.

They are still a hierarchy dominance method for the in group and a warning for the out group.

So male and female dominance is still based on a hierarchy of either physical or mental violence.

To answer your question
"Why a man of science would want to slap his mate up the side of the head in order to make him 'learn' if he gets on your nerves, baffles me"
You an academic?
I grew up and have friends from my working class background, we regularly slap each other up the side of the head if we step out of line in the hierarchy lol
It's a respect/bonding ritual..

 

[Moriarty]

You want equal pay, take equal risk.
I don't have to dig up stats on workplace deaths do I?


No you don't, you can actually stick said stats where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned, simply because you don't take into consideration that less women are hired to do said jobs you speak of, not through their own choice, I hasten to say, so obviously, more men will die in a certain field, than women, so your point is invalid.

You must realise the futility of that argument.
If the government dictates that 50% of all CEO's should be women.
It also has to dictate that 50% of all those who die at work must also be women.

They must also take all the risky jobs, by law.
Otherwise equality is pointless.
Hence, you want equal pay, take the equal risk.

 

[Moriarty]

Have a nice afternoon Moriarty, I'm going out for a while.

Sun is shining and I have friends to meet

I will, off to celebrate my mates grand daughters birth, there will be much merriment and beer supped

 

[SamBally]

You must realise the futility of that argument.
If the government dictates that 50% of all CEO's should be women.
It also has to dictate that 50% of all those who die at work must also be women.

They must also take all the risky jobs, by law.
Otherwise equality is pointless.
Hence, you want equal pay, take the equal risk.

That doesn't make any sense.


A woman, to date, has never passed the extremely physical SAS selection course although some have come very close recently.

Until fairly recently women could not serve on the frontline in warzones although there were multiple jobs they were more than capable of doing.

The fishing industry is predominantly male due to the physical nature of the job, etc.

The building sector etc.







This argument that hard physical labour is somehow superior to less strenuous physical work and so deemed of higher value is ludicrous.


I could reel out stat after stat demonstrating that women are discriminated against in the workplace compared to their male colleagues.


Arguing there is a deprived white male underclass (and there is) but then comparing that to the roles men and women play in the workplace is two entirely separate issues and not related in any way whatsoever.