Hooters.

[Saphire]

Oh boy.... he's off again.

Maybe one day a thread can be debated in that doesn't attract snide remarks and people trying to score points instead of making them with reason....it's not this thread though.

 

[hell2bwith76]

Maybe one day a thread can be debated in that doesn't attract snide remarks and people trying to score points instead of making them with reason....it's not this thread though.

May i suggest that you now move over to he Chat rooms where they have created a special room for "Debate" so you can argue to your hearts content ?. I`m sure you will like it.

 

[Moriarty]

In answer to the multitude of people who said "They would not get the job if they were not beautiful".
Or wondered why I used the word "Pathetic".

Really?

So because Boxers are usually gentically well built.
Basketball players are usually tall.
Racing drivers have good natural reflex's.
They are "Privileged" with genetics which allow them to get a career in those fields.

Genetics plays a huge part of society, Intelligence for instance is one of the major contributing factors to salary.

If your going to equalise society, then equalise it.
Intelligence is as much a genetic "Privilege" as beauty.
Equalise that and see where it gets you.

Thats why its Pathetic.

 

[Wojcik]

American restaurant chain Hooters, has one place here, and it's under review whether they can open two more, one in Manchester one in Liverpool.
There is a debate as to whether this is putting women back a few decades....the days of Bunny girls and page three.

Hooters girls, offer a unique experience to the diner...reason being they were tight low tops and skimpy hot pants.

Is this empowering women?...they look good, so they may as well flaunt it, the tips are said to be brilliant in these places....or is it objectifying them, not to mention excluding all the fatties or the less attractive girls from applying for jobs there.

I think there are attractive women who are smart and use it to their advantage. Well, here's the thing about objectification. The people who complain about the objectification of women, aren't making the types of money that these attractive women are making for themselves.

Strip Clubs in Edinburgh, Scotland for example, have voted to ban strip clubs at a 5/4 vote. This enraged the dancers at the club, as they were making a lot of money doing that profession.

There was another case in Bristol not too long ago where there was a petition that 7,000 had signed, and the council mentioned how they would decide on whether or not to ban strip clubs in Bristol. However, one of the dancers did mention how this would force Strip Clubs to go underground and become less safe for the workers.

The point I'm trying to make is that if people are using justification to put these women out of work against objectification of women, that make them oppressors in the process, as some of these women want to work in these professions as a job.

 

[Saphire]

There is a big difference between women wearing a revealing outfit to wait on tables and a stripper, just as there is a difference between being a stripper or a prostitute.
Neither thing is new though, some women have, and will always choose to use their looks or their bodies to gain advantage...and some men (usually) when employing will always choose a woman for her looks rather than her brain.

The important thing is a woman has the right to choose. If a woman wants to earn money, and many do it short term whilst aiming for higher goals, by parading around in skimpy clothes, as long as she is protected, surely that's her choice?

 

[CrazyCatLady]

It probably did as they possibly had no alternative to taking their clothes off for sleazy men.
Perhaps they have a drug addiction ?
Perhaps they come from an abusive background and they have nowhere to go and no possibility of getting a decent job?

You need to separate sex work from stripping and stripping from bar work with a revealing uniform. There are also different types of sex workers and not all women feel forced to do it to fund addictions or because they come from abusive backgrounds. By your assumption of the kind of woman who is in sex work, that would mean every porn video containing a woman is taking advantage of a vulnerable person- that she is an addict with a history of abuse.
What about men that choose it as a profession? Are they also addicts with a history of abuse?

Believe me, as a woman, we can get sleazy too! Ever heard of The Naked Butler or Buff Butlers? This That’s no worse than Hooters, but I guarantee the women probably have less respect for their ‘piece of meat’!

Less safe?
I don't see how any woman can feel safe in any club in which her job is to remove her clothes for complete strangers and be paid for it, let alone going underground..

The mere fact any woman works for a person who runs a club where women strip for men for money is questionable.
And I'm not just referring to the strippers.
If you're even working there as bar staff it's questionable..

What’s questionable about doing a legitimate job and earning a living?
Women don’t feel safe walking the street- we are a damn sight safer in a club, where there are plenty of men around to protect us when one gets out of control; where there are bar staff to jump in; where there are security staff to pull out the pervs.
If a woman is going to take her clothes off for men, she’s much safer doing it in a club where situations can be controlled. Many are doing it already on the streets of your local town, in your local clubs, and most aren’t getting paid for it! They’re the ones not safe.

Also, the women that choose to strip as a profession are hardly wallflowers. Do you honestly think many of them wouldn’t give a bloke a good slap or a stiletto in the eye, if he got out of hand?

There is nothing empowering in taking your clothes of for a complete stranger and being paid for it.
What's the final goal?
Have you ever been to a strip club?

So, because YOU think it’s not empowering to take your clothes off and dance around for strangers, you attribute that feeling to all women? Yes? Maybe some women do feel empowered by it or maybe they feel empowered by the money. Maybe they feel empowered by the authority it gives them over that man’s emotions- that man’s desire. There is empowerment in sex as an act; the body as an object to be desired and some women feel that, so how can you assume that it’s not empowering?

Yes- I for one have been to a strip club! I’ve been to one with women (because shock horror- now-a-days, not only men go to strip clubs, lesbians, bi’s and heterosexual women do too!) and I’ve been to many of the droll Hen Nights with male strippers and some silly imitation of the Full Monty. And women as an audience are much more disrespectful than men!
(*Oh damn! A personal experience! I await the accusation of ‘bullshitter’, because no stranger anywhere is allowed to have a personal experience and write about it, without it first being ratified by the forum authority as ‘Truth’)

Of course I oppress it, because I want all women to have a decent education, job and life.
Why should I be pro a woman removing her clothes for some sleazy complete stranger?

You need to do your homework. Sarah Jane Dunn gave up a steady acting career because she made more money and had an easier work schedule on Only Fans. This is one example of how a woman removing her clothes for sleazy strangers can bag a decent life. Pretty sure she didn’t start doing it because of Daddy Issues and the need to keep up an addiction. Also do a little research on BDSM mistresses, because believe me- that’s pretty damn empowering and good money too! There was one woman- an ex school teacher- who went into because she loved it more than teaching (well, she remained teaching lessons of some sort!).

Your view of sex work, stripping and even women wearing a skimpy uniform is regressive and you’re assuming all women that go into work where their looks/sexuality is a feature are delicate little creatures being made to sell their ass. They’re not. For some, it is a choice.

 

[Saphire]

Why should a woman wear a revealing outfit in the first place to wait on a table?
True, there's a difference between waiting on tables wearing a revealing outfit, a stripper and a prostitute, , but all have one thing in common - The fact that the female is supplying the male with what it demands - showing off her wares.

True, but most do it when they are very young and naive.
The ones who do it at an older age do it out of desperation, as they've probably been in the business since a young age, got caught up in it and now have to continue due to the fact it's too late to aspire to a different career.



Of course some will.


To you it's a choice - To me it's a degrading necessity.

As I said above - To you it's a choice - To me it's a degrading necessity.

The female is merely supplying the male with what it demands.

Not everything is black and white....and you sound very naive tbh,

I would bet that every young female who applies for jobs where skimpy uniforms are worn, are doing so because she wants to, not because she has to.
I did it myself back in the day, I enjoyed the work, the money, and in all honesty, the attention was not high on my priority list, though it was for some of the girls....and if that's what they wanted, there was no harm whatsoever in them getting it.
No one was degraded, just as a woman who wears a low cut dress or a short skirt on a night out is not degrading herself....it's personal choice.

A prostitute is supplying the male with a very different service...no comparison, it should be in a different thread.

 

[hell2bwith76]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz soon be time to wake up

 

[CrazyCatLady]

You don't get it - it's about having a moral compass.

If they're working in a club as bar staff, where women are stripping for some sleazy strangers, it means that they agree/are ok with the fact that a woman has to gyrate her ass in front of a complete stranger's face in order to earn a living.

Not necessarily! If someone is working the bar in a place where a woman gyrates her ass, it’s because they need the job and bar work suits them, not because they hold strong views on the other roles in the place. So, by that estimation, every council worker in the country supports their districts governing party; every delivery driver for Pizza Hut eats pizza, etc- see where I’m going with this? A job is a job and when you have to eat, your moral compass can be flexible. Yet what’s immoral about supporting your co-workers choice of role, whether that role involves wearing skimpy clothes or in this case, taking them off?

True, many have mental health/low self esteem issues.

Why do you assume that? This is an assumption, I’m guessing, from your vast experience of sex workers and strippers. Do you have any kind of study that specifies that mental health/low self-esteem issues are issues of sex workers/strippers specifically? Lots of women have mental health issues/self esteem issues and don’t go into sex work, so why assume the opposite is true?

Also, you fail to acknowledge the different types of sex worker and different situations in which women sell their body or use it as a commodity. Not all those women have mental health or low esteem issues. You are assuming something that while has a grain of truth for a population of the workers cannot be applied as an umbrella personality deficit of all sex workers! Especially in this day and age, where sex work is easier to get into and there are more avenues for it, e.g.: Only Fans.

Lots of ex porn stars (later on in life) spill the beans on what the industry was about and how degraded it made them feel.
Lots were drugged up to their eyeballs.

Like who? You claim you know all this sh!t, but don’t give examples or expand properly on what you supposedly know. I’m not debating the the sex industry hasn’t been kind to women in the past and yes, there have been stories- grooming, rape, drugs, snuff porn (look it up!). Women have been exploited in the sex industry since men discovered they could sell our pu-ssy’s and get away with it, however, it doesn’t mean that ALL women are being exploited nor that it’s not a legitimate industry. In recent decades, we’ve come a long way as a society in protecting and legitimising sex workers, including those that work in porn.

Porn is an addiction ( be it if you're the viewer or the shower) , a pretty degrading one at that.

You clearly have some hang-ups about sex (perhaps related to religion?) and a very shallow view of sex, if you believe that all porn is an addiction. An addiction to anything can be unhealthy, whether that’s porn, gambling, etc and all addictions are degrading to some degree. The issue is with the person; the addictive personality- not the stimuli of the addiction.

Porn can be used in a healthy way- for couples needing inspiration, a healthy outlet while in a non-physical relationship (e.g.: if a partner has medical issues and can’t physically love their partner).

Most people who use porn have very low self esteem and they're self esteem grows even smaller when they see how large a man's penis is in the films/videos - That's when they feel the need to take it to the next level - Why not try BDSM?

You seem to think you know a lot about people, but when you attempt to show your knowledge, you make yourself sound even more ignorant.
Is this your experience perhaps? The projection you have claimed others have shown?

Possibly, it's just that men tend to talk about being abused much less than women.
There's a great deal of stigma about it - They feel ashamed.

This is the only thing you’ve said that I’ve agreed with. Men do talk about it less, but if you’re going to claim that sex work is because of low-esteem, because the woman has mental health/drug issues, you need to explain why men do it too? Why is there a higher demand for gay porn than there is for heterosexual porn? (Which by the way, pays more than heterosexual porn). Are all those men dealing with abuse and/or drug issues?

Never heard of them. Again, these women must have some sort of low self esteem issue.
Beauty alone doesn't guarantee you have high self esteem - It can depend on many other factors.

So, by your estimation, every woman that’s ever had a male stripper has self-esteem issues? Like Sapphire said, you really are naive.

You’ve never heard of them, because you’re debating a subject you know f*ck all about! Lmao

So now we're talking prostitution...(walking the streets) ?
So you agree on brothels?

Actually, I wasn’t- I wasn’t talking about the street in general. A woman can be attacked walking through the park, it doesn’t matter what she’s wearing. But yes, working from a club is safer than walking the streets and in some ways, so is working from a brothel or as an escort.

The men around to protect you are not really there to protect you, as if they were they'd be telling you to find a decent job.

Perhaps the men realise that women can make decisions for themselves and don’t want to control them.

Why would any woman with a bit of grey matter upstairs want to strip off for a complete stranger and be paid for it in the first place?
Oh right, it's empowerment lol

Because any woman with a bit of grey matter knows how to make good money and if she chooses to use her body to do that, then why not? It’s her choice. Your attitude towards women that choose to use their body to their advantage is pretty appalling. Why can’t a woman have brains AND be a sex worker? How degrading that you think all sex workers are educationally challenged!

And btw, a penis is in no position to tell a woman what’s empowering to her. We’ve had centuries of men telling us how we feel- that’s disempowering.

Oh, so now they're not wallflowers?
So what are they?

WTF! Was this just thrown in because you couldn’t think of anything to say? They are women, with a mind and claws of their own.

If one feels empowered by it they have some pretty big issues that need sorting in their head.
Low self esteem being one of them

Here we go with the self-esteem issues again. GCSE psychology exam soon?

Good for you - Do you want a medal?

You do that a lot in your posts- you ask a question then ridicule the person for answering it. If you don’t want someone to answer the question for fear they will say something you don’t like, why ask it?

This answer is akin to a petulant teenager’s reply.

Wow - Sarah Jane Dunn (whoever that may be, never heard of her, she mustn't have been much of an actress if she gave up her acting career to go on Only Fans).

Does it make you feel good about yourself, quoting an obscure actress gave up her acting career because she made more money and had an easier work schedule on Only Fans?

You haven’t heard of her, because you haven’t a clue what you’re rabbiting on about. You’ve got a view of sex workers and women in general that you can’t seem to shift from, even when given evidence to the contrary. She’s not that obscure. In fact, she was in a very popular soap in the UK.

And I mentioned the ‘obscure’ actress, because I use examples when I debate. because I do know what I’m talking about. It’s called validating my point, something you rarely do.

Why not add a couple more to the list - How about Kerry Katona, Katie Price?

Gotta give you this - You've got some great role models (not) and ambitions.

Again, wtf kind of argument is this? I didn’t claim they were role models and the actress I specifically used as an example as to how glamour modelling can lucrative was because she was relatively successful in her role and is middle-class and educated- a perfect example of the type of woman you DON’T think does sex work. I use examples relevant to the argument. You don’t even use examples to validate yours and then have the gall to criticise my point with petty, unrelated arguments.

Do you have a daddy issue?
Just asking as I never mentioned daddy issues in any of my posts.

Oh dear, pass me an incontinence pad, because I’m about to p!ss myself laughing! You claimed they had issues to be going into the sex industry- low self-esteem, abuse, drug addictions. Do you want to go back to your GCSE psychology books and look at where those issues stem from? Maybe Google the sexual development of the human and take a peek at the Oedipus and Electra complex. You rant on about how you know how women feel and think and you don’t even have the basic knowledge of how a f*cking woman works!

Instead, you fire back a personal question. Again, like a petulant teenager!

 

[CrazyCatLady]

And before you even go there - even politicians. lawyers and other professionals have low self esteem issues (which leads them into BDSM), it's just that their issues aren't looked into, due to their position in society.

By your estimation, everyone everywhere has low self-esteem. Do you not know the name of any other mental health issues? And damn, hate to burst the bubble that you know everything, but psychopathy, narcissism and anti-social personality disorder are the disorders more likely to be associated with politicians and lawyers.

Omg, you’re a tool! Lmao "And before you even go there"- like you've got the f*cking authority on what someone can or cannot reply to you.

Another example?
Well done you !

Yes, well done me. I use examples in my argument. You don’t. You just ‘know’, huh? And no one else knows **** all! Especially not women!

Why regressive?
We don't see male waiters walking around restaurants with thier wares on show..
Don't see why a woman should be wearing a skimpy uniform.

And you don’t often see it of women now-a-days. Most bars and restaurants have androgynous uniforms. But if a woman wants to work in a bar where the uniform is skimpy, why shouldn’t she? She doesn’t have to fill in the application form for the job if she so against the uniform and possible sexual exploitation.

And it’s regressive because it takes away a woman’s choice. Something, it seems we are still fighting for against men like you that think we should have it taken away from us.

So what are they?

They’re women- human female adults- with a mind of their own.

A choice to you, maybe, to me it's a degrading necessity.

And you have every right to believe what you want, but you also don’t have a right to assume that all women think the way you do.

 

[Saphire]

Weird you're referring to me as male, as that is what you come across as tbh,.

Although your avatar is of a cat lady, your mentality is definitely a masculine one.

It's all there - black on white .

You seem a bit hyper ,...

Wrong sort of cannabis ( or wrong sort of person smoking it) or is it speed?

I may get back to you tomorrow - far too much to answer to - I enjoy sleeping during the night.

Maybe you should lay your head down, too..

Nite nite sweetie.

Funny, you said similar to me a couple of days ago.
Maybe you think all woman with opinions and the wit to express them have masculine tendencies.

 

[Saphire]

We don't see male waiters walking around restaurants with their wares on show..

No answer to this statement though, eh?

Dead giveaway - You're definitely male, besides being a (word of choice).




It's been a while since Sam and Whales last posted.

The duo seem to be back in a new guise

Idiot.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

We don't see male waiters walking around restaurants with their wares on show..

No answer to this statement though, eh?

Dead giveaway - You're definitely male, besides being a (word of choice).




It's been a while since Sam and Whales last posted.

The duo seem to be back in a new guise

You really are a f*cking joke.

It does seem the duo is back- your views are very like the Deadly Duo.

Heard it all before, Pr*ck Star. A woman shows a bit of balls and you assume she's male. She can't possibly have an opinion and mind of her own. Believe what you want to believe. You're a random bunch of words to antagonise when I have nothing better to do.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

So you're sitting your GCSEs , are you?

it's obvious that you 2 are basically kids lol

Says the tw@t that can't spout anything other than the words 'self-esteem issues' to make itself appear intelligent AND can't f*cking argue to save his/her/it's life.