Gay cake saga...

[Saphire]

Look, I’m the very last person to defend him in any way at all, but accusations are just that. I was accused of having multiple accounts here, yet I know without doubt that can’t be backed up because I’ve never used more that one at any time. Mud sticks, and unless you can back up your accusation you just come across as a liar. I’m not for a second suggesting he didn’t PM you, it certainly would come as no surprise to me if he did, but calling him out and then not giving proof is wrong.
And yes, back to topic.

I dont have to back up anything.
The pm , which was deleted weeks ago, is not the problem, it was insignificant.
Stalking trolling behaviour however WILL be adressed, and if you need proof of that, it's quite visible evertime he logs in here.

 

[Saphire]

But your constant replies just feed him, and everything goes back to the accusation. Without that he’s just another nutter with issues. He’s a head-case no doubt, a wannabe hard man, but your accusation is at the root of his stalking, or that’s how it comes across.

If you know so much, you must also know that most of the time I ignore his ramblings.
You however, for some reason, seem quite eager to bring up old news.

So.....you go back to your anti Covid vaccination thread, and I will concentrate on more interesting stuff.
Night night.

 

[SamBally]

I dont think it's anything to do with gay marriage being compared to dick cakes or smut.
I think, especially in religious older people, it's very hard to suddenly denounce everything you have been taught since childhood. Not that long ago marriage was only recognised between a man and a woman.
It's not hard to see that some people would find that hard to actively promote it by baking cakes.

Times have changed so much in the last few decades.

I would argue where does it stop, how many more private businesses will view the latest judgement (although it isn't over) and refuse to trade with or provide services to people solely based on their sexual orientation. It is an extremely sinister precedent to set IMO but I accept your point understand it and I promise I won't hold a grudge and harass you for the next two months.

Yes, I am looking at you Grizzly Adams.

Lol!

 

[SamBally]

Hate crime​

• One in five LGBT people (21 per cent) have experienced a hate crime or incident due to their sexual orientation and/or gender identity in the last 12 months.
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• Two in five trans people (41 per cent) have experienced a hate crime or incident because of their gender identity in the last 12 months and one in six LGB people, who aren’t trans (16 per cent), have experienced a hate crime or incident due to their sexual orientation in the same period.
• 
  
• The number of lesbian, gay and bi people who have experienced a hate crime or incident in the last year because of their sexual orientation has risen by 78 per cent from nine per cent in 2013 to 16 per cent in 2017.
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• Four in five LGBT people (81 per cent) who experienced a hate crime or incident didn't report it to the police.
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• Three in 10 LGBT people (29 per cent) avoid certain streets because they do not feel safe there as an LGBT person.
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• More than a third of LGBT people (36 per cent) say they don’t feel comfortable walking down the street while holding their partner's hand. This increases to three in five gay men (58 per cent).
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• One in 10 LGBT people (10 per cent) have experienced homophobic, biphobic or transphobic abuse online directed towards them personally in the last month. This number increases to one in four for trans people (26 per cent) directly experiencing transphobic abuse online in the last month

Discrimination in daily life​

• One in 10 LGBT people (10 per cent) who were looking for a house or flat to rent or buy in the last year were discriminated against because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity.
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• One in six LGBT people (17 per cent) who visited a café, restaurant, bar or nightclub in the last 12 months have been discriminated against based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity.
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• One in four black, Asian and minority ethnic LGBT people (24 per cent) accessing social services in the last year have been discriminated against because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity.
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• Almost three in 10 LGBT people (28 per cent) who visited a faith service or place of worship in the past 12 months experienced discrimination.
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• One in ten LGBT people (10 per cent) who attended a live sporting event in the last year experienced discrimination because of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity.

Source: Stonewall.

​

 

[funandflirty]

I dont think it's anything to do with gay marriage being compared to dick cakes or smut.
I think, especially in religious older people, it's very hard to suddenly denounce everything you have been taught since childhood. Not that long ago marriage was only recognised between a man and a woman.
It's not hard to see that some people would find that hard to actively promote it by baking cakes.

Times have changed so much in the last few decades.

I think by adding my experience I took it off topic (apologies) I was not sexualising the gay rights cake or comparing it to smut etc.

Simply comparing a refusal of service due to personal belief.

 

[Saphire]

I would argue where does it stop, how many more private businesses will view the latest judgement (although it isn't over) and refuse to trade with or provide services to people solely based on their sexual orientation. It is an extremely sinister precedent to set IMO but I accept your point understand it and I promise I won't hold a grudge and harass you for the next two months.

Yes, I am looking at you Grizzly Adams.

Lol!

That's because normal people can agree, disagree, whatever...without holding grudges.

Had the cake maker refused to bake the cake because the man was gay....100% wrong.
He just refused to write the message on the cake...I think that's a different thing altogether.

Just as an extreme example, if a man came in and wanted something written on a cake that was legal, but offensive to the cake maker, 'My wife is a w****'....'The bible is a book for simpletons' ...the mind boggles at some of the things that could be written on a cake.
Should the cake maker not have the right to refuse?

 

[Saphire]

These type of choices are made every day by businesses across the UK and people dont sue them . Perfect example is - a vegeterian would expect to have a choice on the menu off a meat serving restraunt to suit their personal choice. However a similar free choice to a meat eater would not be on offer in a Vegeterian restraunt due to that being the choice of restraunt not to sell it. That then could also be classed as descrimination also !!!

Unless of course you were looking to publicly name and shame someone because they didn't hold the same beliefs as you do.
This case, like the B&B case, stinks of agenda.

 

[Saphire]

Yes, the agenda of one gay couple to have their 5 minutes of fame and to try to shame a business for not kowtowing to their every whim. I think it’s great that these people are shown that their self-entitlement, just because they think they’re “special”, will not always get the result they want.

I agree, again, human rights should work both ways.

 

[SamBally]

How dare members of the LGBT publicly expose the vitriolic hate and prejudice they deal with on a daily basis, who do these people think they are, we give them some rights and they bloody go and ask for more, demand equality, what's that all about? They should just shut up and be grateful for what they are given.

When overt homophobia, religion-driven, is being directly compared to "a meat-eater can't buy meat in a vegetarian restaurant" it just demonstrates why homophobia is still so rampant in today's society.

 

[Saphire]

How dare members of the LGBT publicly expose the vitriolic hate and prejudice they deal with on a daily basis, who do these people think they are, we give them some rights and they bloody go and ask for more, demand equality, what's that all about? They should just shut up and be grateful for what they are given.

When overt homophobia, religion-driven, is being directly compared to "a meat-eater can't buy meat in a vegetarian restaurant" it just demonstrates why homophobia is still so rampant in today's society.

Is it hate though? I cant see any hatred in a baker refusing to write a message he doesn't agree with.
Maybe the gay couple felt more hatred...it's them that has pursued this matter for eight years.

 

[SamBally]

Is it hate though? I cant see any hatred in a baker refusing to write a message he doesn't agree with.
Maybe the gay couple felt more hatred...it's them that has pursued this matter for eight years.

Genuine question, how many businesses will it take to refuse to sell goods or services to the LGBT community before you recognize it is an issue right here and right now?

Did you read the Stonewall stats I posted??

 

[SamBally]

Maybe the gay couple felt more hatred...it's them that has pursued this matter for eight years.

ALL legislation takes time, do you seriously think the suffragettes made a request for equality and it was politely accepted...

Why do you think people seeking equality should just shut up and go away?

 

[Saphire]

Genuine question, how many businesses will it take to refuse to sell goods or services to the LGBT community before you recognize it is an issue right here and right now?

Did you read the Stonewall stats I posted??

I did read the stats, and I agree it's horrendous that any group should be persecuted like this.

I just don't see this as a hate crime. Had they refused to bake the cake, that would be a different issue, but they didn't.

 

[SamBally]

I did read the stats, and I agree it's horrendous that any group should be persecuted like this.

I just don't see this as a hate crime. Had they refused to bake the cake, that would be a different issue, but they didn't.

The business refused to fulfill their side of the already agreed contract solely because their religion states it is a sin if man sleepeth with man.

Dress it up how you like and you will never convince me otherwise. It is religious-driven homophobic bigotry and is VERY common.

 

[Saphire]

ALL legislation takes time, do you seriously think the suffragettes made a request for equality and it was politely accepted...

Why do you think people seeking equality should just shut up and go away?

I don't think, on this matter, we are going to agree Sam.
Like the B&B case, it stinks of an agenda to me.

The business refused to fulfill their side of the already agreed contract solely because their religion states it is a sin if man sleepeth with man.

Dress it up how you like and you will never convince me otherwise. It is religious-driven homophobic bigotry and is VERY common.

It's definitely religion driven.
It'll take time for people who have had religious rights and wrongs drummed in them from childhood, to be able to accept that homosexuality is normal for homosexuals.
I just think when conflicts like this arise, understanding should be given to both sides....and I also think no one should be forced to perform an act, bake a cake, or do anything for payment, they don't feel comfortable with.