Can anyone answer this?

[Cosmonaut]

C'mon, you know as well as I do that one instance of a vaccinated person dying doesn't prove an absolute inefficacy of the vaccine. I'm aware there are other cases - but it has always been openly acknowledged that the vaccine isn't 100% effective.

According to the Public Health England report dated 8th July:

"30,300 deaths, 46,300 hospitalisations and 8,151,000 infections prevented by COVID-19 vaccines"

Of course, we can scrutinise the reliability of this data as much as we like - but how about we wait to see what happens during the latter part of this year. As far as I'm concerned, if there are no more lockdowns and civilisation vaguely returns to what we might call "normal functioning", I'm happy to take the view that the vaccine is doing its job.

 

[Bad_Influence]

C'mon, you know as well as I do that one instance of a vaccinated person dying doesn't prove an absolute inefficacy of the vaccine. I'm aware there are other cases - but it has always been openly acknowledged that the vaccine isn't 100% effective.

According to the Public Health England report dated 8th July:

"30,300 deaths, 46,300 hospitalisations and 8,151,000 infections prevented by COVID-19 vaccines"

Of course, we can scrutinise the reliability of this data as much as we like - but how about we wait to see what happens during the latter part of this year. As far as I'm concerned, if there are no more lockdowns and civilisation vaguely returns to what we might call "normal functioning", I'm happy to take the view that the vaccine is doing its job.

One instance? You know it’s a lot more than that. Or are you seriously suggesting that every death is an unvaxxed person? The number of double jabbed cases in hospital with Covid is higher than unjabbed, not surprising given that over half the population is double-jabbed.

Can you explain to me how they came up with 8,151,000 prevented deaths? How do they know that when they can’t even predict the actual number of deaths? If you can prove the science behind that number I’ll listen.

They throw numbers around to support the rhetoric, in the hope that people just take it as fact, when in truth they have no idea how many lives it has saved. Ffs they can’t even tell us how many of the tests are accurate let alone how many hospitalisations have been prevented or how many deaths.

 

[Bad_Influence]

Taken from the British Medical Journal

Data from PHE: Of all the people who died within 28 days of testing positive for the delta variant between 1February and 19 July, 49% (224) had had two vaccine doses. Almost all of these people (220) were aged 50 or over

 

[Cosmonaut]

One instance? You know it’s a lot more than that. Or are you seriously suggesting that every death is an unvaxxed person? The number of double jabbed cases in hospital with Covid is higher than unjabbed, not surprising given that over half the population is double-jabbed.

Can you explain to me how they came up with 8,151,000 prevented deaths? How do they know that when they can’t even predict the actual number of deaths? If you can prove the science behind that number I’ll listen.

They throw numbers around to support the rhetoric, in the hope that people just take it as fact, when in truth they have no idea how many lives it has saved. Ffs they can’t even tell us how many of the tests are accurate let alone how many hospitalisations have been prevented or how many deaths.

Call me a pedant but the claim refers to 8,151,000 prevented infections, rather than deaths. Big difference.
And no, I'm not an epidemiologist and I only have a basic grounding in mathematical modelling, so I can't explain how they arrived at that figure.
That's why I offered the follow-up comment - we can debate and scrutinise ad infinitum, let's wait to see what life looks like a few months' time.

 

[Bad_Influence]

Call me a pedant but the claim refers to 8,151,000 prevented infections, rather than deaths. Big difference.
And no, I'm not an epidemiologist and I only have a basic grounding in mathematical modelling, so I can't explain how they arrived at that figure.
That's why I offered the follow-up comment - we can debate and scrutinise ad infinitum, let's wait to see what life looks like a few months' time.

Im aware you said prevented infections, my mistake to say deaths. The question HOW remains though.

Yes we can debate forever, and I thank you for keeping it civil and not resorting to petty insults, like some.

As I’ve said though, plans are already being talked about for winter lockdowns, and personally I believe they will happen whether the numbers are low or not. They have consistently twisted the figures to support their draconian measures and I don’t see that changing.

 

[hell2bwith76]

One instance? You know it’s a lot more than that. Or are you seriously suggesting that every death is an unvaxxed person? The number of double jabbed cases in hospital with Covid is higher than unjabbed, not surprising given that over half the population is double-jabbed.

Can you explain to me how they came up with 8,151,000 prevented deaths? How do they know that when they can’t even predict the actual number of deaths? If you can prove the science behind that number I’ll listen.

They throw numbers around to support the rhetoric, in the hope that people just take it as fact, when in truth they have no idea how many lives it has saved. Ffs they can’t even tell us how many of the tests are accurate let alone how many hospitalisations have been prevented or how many deaths.

That`s exactly what your herd do eh ?. Throw numbers around without any direct comparison.

 

[hell2bwith76]

It`s a good job we have so many scientific experts as members of UKchatters eh ?

 

[Bad_Influence]

That`s exactly what your herd do eh ?. Throw numbers around without any direct comparison.

Well it seems to work for the gov’t and the media.

 

[hell2bwith76]

Anything? At what cost? Ruining children’s education? Forcing businesses to close? Stopping the NHS even trying to catch up on years of backlog?
For a virus with a 99% survival rate? Ffs, get some perspective.

Read the words carefully " Ruining" childrens education . Which children are these ? . The simple fact is they would be better educated at home if they got stuck in ! rather than spend their time "socialiising "( i.e. going to the pub and getting drunk !). I know this 1st hand from one of my G. kids who started Uni last year. He decided to stay there when the Uni said they could go home & learn there. He said it was so much easier to learn when he was in his own pad with no other distractions ,such as going to the pub.

"Forcing " businesses to close ?? i think that`s a slight exaggeration as many of them are bigger businesses which would have closed anyway ,Covid or not . Indeed ,quite a few business actually profited from the Lockdown ,Tesco for one !. Check on their profits for that year . Yet more BS from the Cospirators Daily Rag .

NHS "catching up " on backlog of work (?). Does that mean you believe that the very ill Covid sufferers should have been left to die and not treated ?. You`r getting a bit extreme here Bad. You show signs of lack of Empathy to your fellow Humans .
But then ,what can one expect from a right wing Tory ?. TBH ,your tag says it all "WORSHIP THE GOD MONEYPENNY" ...sums you up man. But you have a lot of friends on here ,so carry on with MT `s words of " Work for number ONE".

 

[Altair]

Anyone ever heard of the 'Great Re-Set'?...

A few here i guess.

What we are seeing here with out OWN eyes is exactly that....'The Great Re-Set.'.

No matter how hard we argue, no matter how passionate we are, it WILL happen.

There's Nothing we can do about it.

All the rules have changed in a Heart Beat....!

The now 2% that are Rich are getting Richer and by even more devious ways.

It take's a lot of Brain power to get rich....

It takes to put FEAR into people to make them comply and feed them.

 

[Bad_Influence]

Read the words carefully " Ruining" childrens education . Which children are these ? . The simple fact is they would be better educated at home if they got stuck in ! rather than spend their time "socialiising "( i.e. going to the pub and getting drunk !). I know this 1st hand from one of my G. kids who started Uni last year. He decided to stay there when the Uni said they could go home & learn there. He said it was so much easier to learn when he was in his own pad with no other distractions ,such as going to the pub.

"Forcing " businesses to close ?? i think that`s a slight exaggeration as many of them are bigger businesses which would have closed anyway ,Covid or not . Indeed ,quite a few business actually profited from the Lockdown ,Tesco for one !. Check on their profits for that year . Yet more BS from the Cospirators Daily Rag .

NHS "catching up " on backlog of work (?). Does that mean you believe that the very ill Covid sufferers should have been left to die and not treated ?. You`r getting a bit extreme here Bad. You show signs of lack of Empathy to your fellow Humans .
But then ,what can one expect from a right wing Tory ?. TBH ,your tag says it all "WORSHIP THE GOD MONEYPENNY" ...sums you up man. But you have a lot of friends on here ,so carry on with MT `s words of " Work for number ONE".

Wow. Please don’t try to tell me you’re that naive??

The children that have missed schooling, socialising with their peers, for the younger ones particularly learning social skills.
Do you honestly believe that for the vast majority home schooling is a better environment to learn? Yes it works for some but not the vast majority.

‘Many are bigger businesses that would have closed anyway’? What planet are you on? You really do think that if it’s not on BBC News it’s not happening don’t you? What about the small businesses that don’t make the news? You think furlough saved them all I presume? It’s not all about the high street stores. Ask Poco how lockdown has affected him. It is not just the financial side of closure, it’s the anxiety and stress of not knowing whether you have a business to go back to.

Do I think ill covid patients should have been left to die? What sort of pathetic question is that? But it’s as though nothing else is killing people now. Cancer sufferers are being left without appointments, people with cardiac problems ard having appointments cancelled, 50,000 cases of dementia have reportedly been missed. Covid isn’t the only thing killing people, but hey, let’s ignore that should we?

Open your eyes to the bigger picture Hells. I know you’re quite happy in your bubble but it not all about YOU.

 

[hell2bwith76]

Wow. Please don’t try to tell me you’re that naive??

The children that have missed schooling, socialising with their peers, for the younger ones particularly learning social skills.
Do you honestly believe that for the vast majority home schooling is a better environment to learn? Yes it works for some but not the vast majority.

‘Many are bigger businesses that would have closed anyway’? What planet are you on? You really do think that if it’s not on BBC News it’s not happening don’t you? What about the small businesses that don’t make the news? You think furlough saved them all I presume? It’s not all about the high street stores. Ask Poco how lockdown has affected him. It is not just the financial side of closure, it’s the anxiety and stress of not knowing whether you have a business to go back to.

Do I think ill covid patients should have been left to die? What sort of pathetic question is that? But it’s as though nothing else is killing people now. Cancer sufferers are being left without appointments, people with cardiac problems ard having appointments cancelled, 50,000 cases of dementia have reportedly been missed. Covid isn’t the only thing killing people, but hey, let’s ignore that should we?

Open your eyes to the bigger picture Hells. I know you’re quite happy in your bubble but it not all about YOU.

It IS all about you i guess ?

 

[Altair]

It IS all about you i guess ?

If is WAS about HIM?.....I think you would have known by now.

 

[hell2bwith76]

It IS all about you i guess ?

A. No nursery schools had to close down ( fact !) That covers the most social time of any child (age 1 to 5).Where i live no Junior schools had to close down either .Many parents were front line workers and the schools stayed open to accomodate them . Do you live in your own isolated room ?.
It has been shown that many of the businesses which closed down during the Lockdown were ready to cut back anyway ,due to increased orders online . That in itself gave plenty of people work ,especially in the Delivery business.

 

[Bad_Influence]

From the Daily Mail:

Teen boys are 14 TIMES more likely to experience rare heart inflammation after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine than girls - but rarely require intensive care or die, small study finds​

RARELY? So they know it kills kids but they still want to inject them??? What is wrong with these people? The virus RARELY kills them too ffs.

 

[Bad_Influence]

A. No nursery schools had to close down ( fact !) That covers the most social time of any child (age 1 to 5).Where i live no Junior schools had to close down either .Many parents were front line workers and the schools stayed open to accomodate them . Do you live in your own isolated room ?.
It has been shown that many of the businesses which closed down during the Lockdown were ready to cut back anyway ,due to increased orders online . That in itself gave plenty of people work ,especially in the Delivery business.

You need some serious help.

 

[Altair]

 

[Altair]

The words....


There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware.

I think it's time we stop.

Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

There's battle lines being drawn.

Nobody's right if everybody's wrong.

Young people speaking' their minds.

Getting so much resistance from behind....

It's time we stop.

Hey, what's that sound?

Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat.

A thousand people in the street.

Singing songs and carrying signs...Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

It's time we stop.

Hey, what's that sound?

Everybody look - what's going down?

Paranoia strikes deep.....Into your life it will creep.

It starts when you're always afraid...

Step out of line, the man come and take you away.

We better stop.

Hey, what's that sound?

Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

 

[Bad_Influence]

Pro-choice. Choice is only choice when dealing with facts on both sides.

 

[Altair]

Pro-choice. Choice is only choice when dealing with facts on both sides.

A lot depends on 'Who's' Facts.