Sad indeed....Altair.
So you don't understand how difficult it can be for some to write posts on a mobile, how often speelcheck can alter our words etc, how much longer it can take than typing posts on a computer.
No further comment needed from you.
Why I don't trust the Bible.
- Thread starter Altair
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So you don't understand how difficult it can be for some to write posts on a mobile, how often speelcheck can alter our words etc, how much longer it can take than typing posts on a computer.
No further comment needed from you.
Hi Kev.... Yes, absolutely.
That's a trouble with much of Christianity which has so reversed itself in to other religions, cultures and beliefs as to lose the identity of the man who led a mission against injustice and greed so long ago.
Kev45
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Hello Smew,
I enjoyed your posts, informative and interesting.
I feel that, and I bow down to your superior knowledge on this topic, the watering down and or different interpretations by various religious institutions or groups etc has indeed muddied the water. The core message of an individual named Jesus now often lost in translation. An attempt by 'man' (men) to intellectualise, if you like, in order to gain sole ownership of a Jesus or a god and when the 'original' message could not have been simpler or much clearer.
Politicisation and commercialism further muddies the water and sermons now driving "personal gain or wealth" are so far removed from social justice and or tackling inequality or oppression etc that they do indeed do a real disservice to what a man called Jesus once wanted to achieve.
I enjoyed your posts, informative and interesting.
I feel that, and I bow down to your superior knowledge on this topic, the watering down and or different interpretations by various religious institutions or groups etc has indeed muddied the water. The core message of an individual named Jesus now often lost in translation. An attempt by 'man' (men) to intellectualise, if you like, in order to gain sole ownership of a Jesus or a god and when the 'original' message could not have been simpler or much clearer.
Politicisation and commercialism further muddies the water and sermons now driving "personal gain or wealth" are so far removed from social justice and or tackling inequality or oppression etc that they do indeed do a real disservice to what a man called Jesus once wanted to achieve.
I think that you have it, right there.
It's easy to see how far Christianity has left the values of Jesus behind, simply by reading what he said and then comparing that with how much of Christianity has and does live, such as the fat wealth of many church clergies, etc.
I do like much about church communities in the UK, but it's the togetherness of the good ones that is so laudable rather than some of their crazy ideas about Jesus.
Kev45
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Yes, growing numbers of church communities across the UK are beginning to organise/mobilise in large numbers in an attempt to steer the conversation back in line with the building blocks, the foundations of Christianity.
Reclaiming an identity of Christianity as one that actively engages with and challenges injustice, fight inequality, support social justice and of course reflecting the life and mission of a man called Jesus.
This dissent goes all the way to the top in some instances, but unfortunately there are also many in the higher echelons who are resistant to change, any change at all, within these religious institutions.
They stubbornly cling on to their beliefs, while observing Christianity crumble around them, simply because the exclusivity they preach leaves no space at all for a more tolerant inclusivity that actually reflects a modern society.
When even children's charities (Children’s Society) are refusing donations from the archbishop of Canterbury, on the grounds “it would not be consistent with the principles and values that underpin our work”, then you realize just how much of an uphill battle it really is.
Reclaiming an identity of Christianity as one that actively engages with and challenges injustice, fight inequality, support social justice and of course reflecting the life and mission of a man called Jesus.
This dissent goes all the way to the top in some instances, but unfortunately there are also many in the higher echelons who are resistant to change, any change at all, within these religious institutions.
They stubbornly cling on to their beliefs, while observing Christianity crumble around them, simply because the exclusivity they preach leaves no space at all for a more tolerant inclusivity that actually reflects a modern society.
When even children's charities (Children’s Society) are refusing donations from the archbishop of Canterbury, on the grounds “it would not be consistent with the principles and values that underpin our work”, then you realize just how much of an uphill battle it really is.
Exactly so!
Churches around here are changing, they invite anyone to CAMEO tea-n-chat dates (come and meet each other), they support and some marry same sex couples, ordain female priests, vicars and pastors, and are reassessing the foundations of their churches, whilst holding to the resurrection. I visit a CAMEO meeting every week which is attended by various denominations as well as agnostics, atheists and gfolks like me (deists).
The churches that are rethinking about themselves are rising.
Kev45
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During my childhood, a military background, and wherever we lived in the world, the equivalent of CAMEO was the norm. Not necessarily a place where religion was at the forefront barking out orders, reminding us who is the boss, but rather sitting confidently and modestly in the background. An inclusive space that brought the younger army community closer (to a certain degree), both officer and rank and file. Positively rather than negatively, widening the pre-existing class driven social divide within the Armed Forces.
My first serious girlfriend was an officer's daughter I met at a church run army youth club in Germany. Imagine it, an uneducated gobby street urchin, an army brat, introduced to a mysterious exotic world where drinking a glass of wine at 'dinner' was the norm and where adults treated you like a human being rather than with a backhand at the side of the head when you got lippy.
If you are reading Carol, I bet that you ended up marrying a posh bloke called Hugo from Surrey, got divorced 25 years later and opened a yoga retreat in Thailand to "find yourself".
At its very best, religion is inclusive and brings together people despite their background or social class, if it doesn't modernise and separate from a failed establishment (monarchy and politics) in the UK, it will inevitably whither and die and probably deserves to.
My first serious girlfriend was an officer's daughter I met at a church run army youth club in Germany. Imagine it, an uneducated gobby street urchin, an army brat, introduced to a mysterious exotic world where drinking a glass of wine at 'dinner' was the norm and where adults treated you like a human being rather than with a backhand at the side of the head when you got lippy.
If you are reading Carol, I bet that you ended up marrying a posh bloke called Hugo from Surrey, got divorced 25 years later and opened a yoga retreat in Thailand to "find yourself".
At its very best, religion is inclusive and brings together people despite their background or social class, if it doesn't modernise and separate from a failed establishment (monarchy and politics) in the UK, it will inevitably whither and die and probably deserves to.
I enjoyed your story in the above post.During my childhood, a military background, and wherever we lived in the world, the equivalent of CAMEO was the norm. Not necessarily a place where religion was at the forefront barking out orders, reminding us who is the boss, but rather sitting confidently and modestly in the background. An inclusive space that brought the younger army community closer (to a certain degree), both officer and rank and file. Positively rather than negatively, widening the pre-existing class driven social divide within the Armed Forces.
My first serious girlfriend was an officer's daughter I met at a church run army youth club in Germany. Imagine it, an uneducated gobby street urchin, an army brat, introduced to a mysterious exotic world where drinking a glass of wine at 'dinner' was the norm and where adults treated you like a human being rather than with a backhand at the side of the head when you got lippy.
If you are reading Carol, I bet that you ended up marrying a posh bloke called Hugo from Surrey, got divorced 25 years later and opened a yoga retreat in Thailand to "find yourself".
At its very best, religion is inclusive and brings together people despite their background or social class, if it doesn't modernise and separate from a failed establishment (monarchy and politics) in the UK, it will inevitably whither and die and probably deserves to.
Yes, I go to a Cameo meeting each week, and an amazing spread of backgrounds, beliefs and pasts is represented at it. And each one of us values this event so much.
And we never argue about anything..... each person can explain their past and present without fear or challenge.
Sounds like you had a tough youth and upbringing.
Kev45
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No tougher than anyone else from a working-class Irish Catholic background, it was the norm, and we all had it tough in that era. The military opened my eyes to a middle class who had more opportunities simply because they believed in education, they didn't force their religious views down your throat, and were a lot more laid back generally. I became an apostate in my early 20s, I didn't want to celebrate a life being dirt poor and then rewarded for it in an afterlife. Catholic guilt, which suppressed and held us back, and nothing more or nothing less.
I respect anyone of faith, as long as they practice, or at least try to, what they preach. Too many hangers on riding on the coattails of religion, distorting it beyond recognition, to suit their values and ideology and sweet FA to do with what a man called Jesus believed in.
Thanks for the civilised chat, and enjoy your Christmas and everyone else.
I respect anyone of faith, as long as they practice, or at least try to, what they preach. Too many hangers on riding on the coattails of religion, distorting it beyond recognition, to suit their values and ideology and sweet FA to do with what a man called Jesus believed in.
Thanks for the civilised chat, and enjoy your Christmas and everyone else.
Altair
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Military Background?... Absolute bollox. You know this and so do I.During my childhood, a military background, and wherever we lived in the world, the equivalent of CAMEO was the norm. Not necessarily a place where religion was at the forefront barking out orders, reminding us who is the boss, but rather sitting confidently and modestly in the background. An inclusive space that brought the younger army community closer (to a certain degree), both officer and rank and file. Positively rather than negatively, widening the pre-existing class driven social divide within the Armed Forces.
My first serious girlfriend was an officer's daughter I met at a church run army youth club in Germany. Imagine it, an uneducated gobby street urchin, an army brat, introduced to a mysterious exotic world where drinking a glass of wine at 'dinner' was the norm and where adults treated you like a human being rather than with a backhand at the side of the head when you got lippy.
If you are reading Carol, I bet that you ended up marrying a posh bloke called Hugo from Surrey, got divorced 25 years later and opened a yoga retreat in Thailand to "find yourself".
At its very best, religion is inclusive and brings together people despite their background or social class, if it doesn't modernise and separate from a failed establishment (monarchy and politics) in the UK, it will inevitably whither and die and probably deserves to.
You have only had ONE Girlfriend in your life and she left you because you were a lying cvnt and all the time you actually fancied men.
When you realised you were Gay.... you kept it a secret from her and yourself.
I can smell a nasty Gay when I see one.
You 'Cover' you post with 'Religion'... A tactic often used by those who wish to try and cover their tracks.
Prove me wrong?.
