The truth will do!

Discussion in 'Current Events/News' started by Dong, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. ChloePsych

    ChloePsych UKChat Initiate

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    OK as you all find it an inconvenient question to answer, I'll put you out of your misery. It's not hypothetical. There was a Saville statue in a school. It was removed. Nobody claimed we were erasing history. We still remember who jimmy Saville was. History remains intact.
     
  2. Dong

    Dong UKChat Initiate

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    But your children won't! He'll have faded away by then, long gone down the sewer of his time.
     
  3. Jo_King

    Jo_King UKChat Familiar

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    First the statues, now stain glass windows. Cambridge Uni are removing one, was dedicated to some eugenics bloke. Marie Stopes, held similar racist views, must be the next target.
    Verified Twitter account of BLM, praising Palestine, condemning Israel, not political then, definitely not.

    All these hidden agendas, the truth is out there, somewhere, but folks can't see the wood for the trees.
     
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  4. ChloePsych

    ChloePsych UKChat Initiate

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    Maybe so. Do you think that statue should have stayed up then as a reminder to kids, or should we put up a statue to celebrate someone positive?
     
  5. Steven113

    Steven113 UKChat Newbie

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    Difference is that a mob of idiots didn't come along and tear down said statue of Jimmy Saville in an animalistic dangerous fashion in the middle of a deadly global pandemic when we were suppose to be on a strict lockdown to save lives.
     
  6. Dong

    Dong UKChat Initiate

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    Well, I did you the favour of taking your choice of Savile as an example. He will never be in any school playground, will he?
    But , as the OP says, a true precis on a plaque to give an account of someone's life might be the right way of doing things!
     
  7. Bad_Influence

    Bad_Influence .

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    It's quite simple.. as has been stated before (as Chloe chose to ignore) What Savile did was heinous and everyone knew it to be at the time. Whereas when Colston was the bad guy slavery was the norm.... it wasn't seen as being evil. Trying to compare the two is pathetic at best, desperate ate worst.
     
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  8. Moriarty

    Moriarty UKChat Familiar

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    This is why the removal of any statue is complex.
    As you said later, Germany removed statues of Hitler, was that right?
    It's debatable whether they should have been.
    Sometimes we should keep statues to remind us how corrupt a system can be, how much we need to ensure transparency of governance and business practice.
    As for Saville, one cannot make a special case for if you follow logical grounds.
    He did do a lot for charity and was thus honoured for it.
    If you tear down a statue are you willing to tear down all the money that went with it for good causes.
    It's a moral and philosophical question, not one thats easily answered.
    Should we weigh the crimes against the benefits?
    If so why is the statue of Marx still standing?
    Should we remove everything that was built with the benefit, if so with slavery you would have to tear down most museums and universities.
    Or do we ask people in referendum if we should take an action.
    That depends on how educated people are to the reason a statue was set in place.
    One cannot simply say "Tear down all things related to slavery".
    Otherwise we would be tearing down the Pyramids and the Colosseum.
     
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  9. ChloePsych

    ChloePsych UKChat Initiate

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    We don't need statues to remind us of anything, Moriarty.

    We keep history stuff in books.
     
  10. WickedPerdition

    WickedPerdition UNABLE TO STOP BITCHING

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    I can't believe that you are still posting utterly irrelevant material in this thread.
    Don't you think it's time to move on to themes you actually have some experience with; like kittens and fluffy things and pretty things in pink?
     
  11. supercookie123

    supercookie123 UKChat Expert

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    Now there's talk of a statue to George Floyd. In contrast to the many whose statues have been criticised now, who did 'good' things while holding 'bad' views, he seems to have been a predominantly 'bad' man whose 'good' was not a conscious act. The way in which he died was grotesque; that in itself does not make him a hero or martyr. He did not die knowing he would open this debate; he died, as far as I am aware, committing yet another crime. I don't know that this circumstance makes him one to be celebrated.
     
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  12. supercookie123

    supercookie123 UKChat Expert

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    No, I think it was right that it was removed, but the 'someone positive' idea is a winner - UNTIL views come into it. All these other statues were fine until delving was done. It might solve a lot of arguing if we just have actual people and when they die, we don't make stone or bronze puppets of them. Can't please all of the people all of the time. People will never agree!
     
  13. Moriarty

    Moriarty UKChat Familiar

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    How long before certain authors are suddenly non sequiturs.
    We have seen authors losing their publishers for infractions of the identity politics ideology.
    Should we not embrace history as a lesson to learn from, a guide of how we can improve.
    The current authoritarian view that history should be deleted in favour of the feelings of those who have never suffered the crimes that history represents is an anathema to reasoning.
    Surely critical thought requires hard understanding of history, not a safe space of selective opinion and thus ignorant evaluation.
     
  14. breakwake_

    breakwake_ UKChat Familiar

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    No. History is verbal too. History, once its been forgotten, has to be rediscovered to be rewrote. Cornish history was never fully recorded in word form. I know stories which I believe to be true only which can't be entirely proven to be true. You might call them folklore. Lack of evidence isn't the issue, physical evidence is there, its a lack of resources and a lack of funding. Its just not important enough I suppose. The hypothesis that history is kept in books doesn't help the history that has yet to be proven, as in the UK history that can't be proven isn't history. And I know a historian who's spent his life rummaging through numerous scattered records and recording them in order, only to be considered an unreliable source. Possibly due to his ethnicity.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  15. Bad_Influence

    Bad_Influence .

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    To be fair Chloe has always had a 'delete' button that makes everything go away. It works on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter so it must work unreal life, right? We have a whole generation that think just deleting stuff makes it better.
     
  16. Dong

    Dong UKChat Initiate

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    We have a whole generation that think just deleting stuff makes it better
     
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  17. Dong

    Dong UKChat Initiate

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    Then we ought to set them on to coronavirus, That would be something useful!
     

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