Christ "learned obedience from the things he suffered"

[Raining_Roses]

Are any of the billions of believers in God wrong?

They could be. How do you know they’re right?
Once upon a time, humans believed the earth was flat. Then they found out it wasn’t, but some still refused to believe it. Then over time, with more and more evidence (because of that religion called ‘science’!), the majority came around to understand that it was indeed, spherical, nevertheless, some still refuse to believe it’s not flat. And it’s 2023.

There’s no harm in believing that the world is flat- just as there is no harm in believing in your ‘God’ or theory of creation- everyone is entitled to their belief. But the introduction of silly rules to abide by to be a member of a ‘special’ group; bullying & isolation, indoctrination and forced labour for your set of beliefs means it becomes political, and sheds all association to ‘faith’ or ‘belief’.

Can you prove they are?

No more than They can prove they are right.

As I’ve said previously, I’m agnostic and comfortable with not knowing whether there is a God/s or not, because I know that the answer will not come in my life time and honestly, I don’t think the self-centred, ostentatious, money-centred human could comprehend what ‘God/s’ is and what it means. The brains of our species- physically & psychologically- are not mature enough to begin to understand what it is. I hold beliefs that stretch from the possibility of a traditional God or Gods to the theory that we could all be a computer simulation. But what I am sure of- with no scientific proof required- that whatever it is, it does not demand worship in a house that a man made and it does not dictate the law/judgement/etc through a man/human that is no more ‘blessed’ than I am.

Just because we do not understand a thing, should not mean we discount it.
Otherwise modern physics would never have existed and the computer or mobile phone you are writing on would never have come into being.

Exactly! So, we can neither confirm or discount a god/s created us or that we are part of a simulation in a computer system run by higher beings! Nor can we discount or confirm that Déjà vu is related to a glitch in that computer system.

Science is just as much a religion as any other, it is based on what one see's, which is as illusionary as what one believes.

No, it isn’t. Science is observable by independent groups/persons and measurable by others apart from the believer. It is not solely based on affirming belief, seeing as research sets out to challenge as much as it does affirm. A person’s beliefs can change over time or suddenly based on research and ‘science’, whereas Religion depends on one’s belief’s not changing over time- it fights to keep everything the same and followers believing in what is said by one source. There is little room for challenge and adaptability.
Religion- any religion- is based on believing what another person says- the concepts of that group, led by ‘that’ person replaces anything you might believe or hold in mind to challenge. It becomes the source of all knowledge and anything that challenges it has to be twisted to fit that existing narrative or else written off as irrelevant and/or untrue.

Science is based on what lots of people say and have set out to test- it’s based on history, analysis, review- and can be argued and challenged or extended on- investigated further. Religion affords none of those. It leads the vulnerable and blind on a journey of trust that no controlling charlatan deserves. And there’s usually one or a few at the top of the chain, milking off the others below, from the individual cult leaders, upheld in their well-laden little/big places of worship, with subsidised/free housing, getting handouts from ‘contributions’ from their groupies. Religion- all religion- loves money, loves segregation and discrimination, and playing the virtuous while using and abusing others.

Unfortunately, no one can deny that Science (these days!) is in part, financially driven, so no need to rip apart that little hole. The ‘evidence’ can be found where the cash is- COVID, as well as the trans brainwashing are prime examples. Now we have a drugs company demanding huge amounts from the N.H.S for a C.F drug that can be made and sold at a fraction of the price. The ‘science’ of pharmaceuticals and healthcare in general (in addition to cosmetic surgery)- has tragically become a profit scam- with greedy humans at the top of the chain, influencing the masses and making lots of money.
But we still have a choice- we don’t have to take part, if we don’t want to. We can still choose what treatment- if any- we consent to. If you join a cult, can you choose which- if any- activities you take part in? Can you believe in some of the bits they say about God/their book/rules and ditch the rest?

Those that want to validate religion as a stable concept of mental functioning usually try to compare it against ‘science’. They are not comparable. There is no proof of existence for a God/s or creator- it is a concept- it does not exist beyond the mind of the beholder. Science is the practice of theory and research and the results of that research exist beyond the reality of the beholder or group of beholders.

 

[A_Son_of_God]

Just as people can "see" atoms, they can see God. The idea of looking in a microscope to see an atom is impossible. Why? Because it is theoretical. Yet it works. So, just like God - the lifegiver - gives life, and we can demonstrate through studies that life only comes from life, which negates life coming from non-life, which is not scientifically proven, we can look at atomic theory and what we perceive from it to see it as real. There is no actual photo of an atom. In fact, there is an attempt to show "atoms" by way of photography. This is what they show: we can see an "atom" by the path it leaves behind. We can also "see" a photo of atoms by using computers to input many different angles all at once to make an image of some form of structure...but the people who do this are the same people who paint "cavemen" with features that there is no basis for. The same ones like Ross, on Friends, who theorised that dinosaurs sounded like the noise he made.

So, due to basic science - proof - there is more evidence of an intelligent creator, than some nothings one day getting together to develop theories, which they'd need a brain to do in the first place. They wouldn't need a brain, but all the systems put together to let the brain work. Too many coincidences, with chances so great for just one of them, let alone hundreds/thousands/millions of them, so that they're blown out of reality by the science of mathematics and probability.

Totally disagree with the idea that faith in God is not based on evidence. What a load of codswallop...whatever codswallop is. In fact, the Bible explains what "faith" is itself, from the Bible's point of view, rather than the dictionary's version.

It says this at Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen."

ASSURED expectation, not just a blind hope.
EVIDENT demonstration of realities, not just hokey pokey.

 

[Moriarty]

Those that want to validate religion as a stable concept of mental functioning usually try to compare it against ‘science’. They are not comparable. There is no proof of existence for a God/s or creator- it is a concept- it does not exist beyond the mind of the beholder. Science is the practice of theory and research and the results of that research exist beyond the reality of the beholder or group of beholders.

Yet science always changes as new ideas are formed and researched.
So in reality, to be a true agnostic one must always question.

Science is no more fact than religion, because science does not have have the ultimate answers people seek, so they put faith in something else.

Science gets it wrong all the time, we are simple chimps who think we are smart, as both you and I have said in other posts, how can a mind as misunderstood by our own experts come up with real answers.

We try, fail, try again, fail, keep going, that is the human condition, well until you add in money, then morals go out the window.

 

[cidal]

If he were real he would wonder - wow , this douche is my follower? He would like to explain to the rest of.. be less a douche like follower like you cos you're well.. a knob in so many ways he would not be ok with.. yes, I met him once.

Debating this douche like debating a door-stop. You need to question your life and why you want to appear smarter. What do you win?

 

[cidal]

It depends on ones view point.
If Jesus was the Christ living amongst us does that argument make sense.
That Christ brought it upon himself to live among us to experience the life of mortals through his "Son" Jesus, not by surrogacy but by transference.
That Jesus was not an offspring of christ, but was christ himself made mortal by choice.

Would it not follow that he should be shown the path that mortals paved through thier lives, yet remain true to the teaching of the "Father"?
If Jesus was god incarnate, would it not make his trials and tribulations worth more morally if he suffered the life of a mortal yet was still "Good"?

To answer the 2 points you made.
1) Who was Jesus learning to be obedient to, if he was God?
If Jesus was Christ incarnate on earth then he learned obedience because he was not born an adult as Adam was, he was born a child which gave him a life in which to learn obedience if he was taught well by those who believed or formulated his own moral compass to right and wrong.

2) How was Jesus learning, if he was God?
Perhaps jesus as the incarnation of christ was learning the mortal perception of the world with its faith and fallacies, it's hope and hatred, its love and loss, to further his understanding of why perfection did not exist and that not all were created in his image.

It's a fun debate, thank you for it.
I always wondered why God and Jesus were viewed as separate yet one.
Perhaps we just simply haven't asked the simple questions which come before the complex ones.

Modern Science has learned a lot from old religion, these days questioning science is a taboo.
It used to be the other way round, you questioned science but had faith in religion.
Now religions are questionable, but people put blind faith in science.

You have the name 'Son of God'. That makes you a ***.. whoever's son you are, yes? Wow, your mum must be like.. I pushed this bastard out of me...had him in me for so long and took care of him.. and he is the son of whom? And sticks up for a man-god? Wow, what a disconnected ***.

Also..'faith in science'? No scientist has faith in what we do - we verify and test you complete moronic tool. You dipshit. Science changes .. even daily.,. weekly or monthly. When did your book change - based on bullshit from 2,000 years ago. Yes, a dipshit like you sucked me in to to replying.

The only good thing about you is - you are such a massive asshole in ways that cannot be measured by science - you will turn people off that whole god/religion bullshit. No logic of mine will work. But you - thank you. You have helped more people go with logic and sanity than I ever could. You have done well. So, keep up with your bullshit and narcissism - it is beautiful. If there was something as illogical as a god... it will be cunts like you that make that point. So, go on.

 

[cidal]

Oh, I forgot - a tune.. also. .**** you arrogant bastard.

 

[cidal]

Just like people can see atoms.. they can see god! Wow.. what an educated dickhead. I would like to say.. When I saw this atom crossing the street I thought.. well ****, I need more rum. So, I am out to buy rum. I hope you see your atom soon. Or Jesus, either works and is a valid reason to drink.

oh also. the dipshit wrote this and lied.. while religion and christ says.. dont like " Science is no more fact than religion, because science does not have have the ultimate answers people seek, so they put faith in something else."

Science changes all the time.. self corrects. Religion and a *** like him.. when has his book changed? Last year? Last month? He will spin and spin. I always bite cos well.. it is rare a *** like him show up on the internet.. no, Im kidding.. he is a dime a dozen zealot. I just have no life,., Im out of rum....and I love a good *** sort of religious man.

Due to Cyndi being made out of a rib.. she nailed the tune.

 

[cidal]

Just as people can "see" atoms, they can see God. The idea of looking in a microscope to see an atom is impossible. Why? Because it is theoretical. Yet it works. So, just like God - the lifegiver - gives life, and we can demonstrate through studies that life only comes from life, which negates life coming from non-life, which is not scientifically proven, we can look at atomic theory and what we perceive from it to see it as real. There is no actual photo of an atom. In fact, there is an attempt to show "atoms" by way of photography. This is what they show: we can see an "atom" by the path it leaves behind. We can also "see" a photo of atoms by using computers to input many different angles all at once to make an image of some form of structure...but the people who do this are the same people who paint "cavemen" with features that there is no basis for. The same ones like Ross, on Friends, who theorised that dinosaurs sounded like the noise he made.

So, due to basic science - proof - there is more evidence of an intelligent creator, than some nothings one day getting together to develop theories, which they'd need a brain to do in the first place. They wouldn't need a brain, but all the systems put together to let the brain work. Too many coincidences, with chances so great for just one of them, let alone hundreds/thousands/millions of them, so that they're blown out of reality by the science of mathematics and probability.

Totally disagree with the idea that faith in God is not based on evidence. What a load of codswallop...whatever codswallop is. In fact, the Bible explains what "faith" is itself, from the Bible's point of view, rather than the dictionary's version.

It says this at Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen."

ASSURED expectation, not just a blind hope.
EVIDENT demonstration of realities, not just hokey pokey.

"It says this at Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.""

It says in Go **** Yourself 4:20: "You are a massive *** with a punchable face. You, yes you Son of God - we wrote this JUST for you.".

How can I dismiss Go **** Yourself 4:20?

 

[Moriarty]

"Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen."

That is modern science.

If one replaces "Hoped for" with "Funded"

Neither are seen, they are theories, which in reality mean feck all.

 

[A_Son_of_God]

I see Cidal expresses an interest in this topic. Thank you for demonstrating your personality so well for all to see, Cidal. You know I won't answer people who don't know how to reason, as I feel I'm teasing them. So please, feel free to drivel your hatred before the world. Thank you though for being so interested in my posts. It is a shame you lack the ability to reason, but it is not a shame your attitude is disgusting as a human in the way you speak to others. There is a good scripture just for you. "Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap."

Enjoy your reaping when it comes, and enjoy the rewards for all your hard work.

 

[Moriarty]

I see Cidal expresses an interest in this topic. Thank you for demonstrating your personality so well for all to see, Cidal. You know I won't answer people who don't know how to reason, as I feel I'm teasing them. So please, feel free to drivel your hatred before the world. Thank you though for being so interested in my posts. It is a shame you lack the ability to reason, but it is not a shame your attitude is disgusting as a human in the way you speak to others. There is a good scripture just for you. "Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap."

Enjoy your reaping when it comes, and enjoy the rewards for all your hard work.

Cidal has his right to his opinion.
How he portrays his beliefs is up to him.

I would not judge, as I don't know to the validity of those opinions.
How they are shared however, is questionable.

Surely the only way to learn is through civil discourse.
When one can respect both sides of an argument, yet argue a point.

Considering what we think we know vrs what we think we know, is the whole point of discussion?

 

[A_Son_of_God]

Cidal has his right to his opinion.

He isn't expressing an opinion in the debate. He makes it personal, and makes threats.
He has no capability to debate.

How he portrays his beliefs is up to him.

This isn't about his beliefs. It's about his disgusting, filthy attitude towards others.

Surely the only way to learn is through civil discourse.

Yes. It is obvious he doesn't intend to do that. He's ignored.

When one can respect both sides of an argument, yet argue a point.

When he presents a side in a reasonable manner, then he has validity. At present, all he does is insult and abuse. No side is presented.

Considering what we think we know vrs what we think we know, is the whole point of discussion?

 

[Kev45]

Sausage, who constantly insults other chatters regarding their "mental health" telling them to "see a doctor" and who has a juvenile hissy fit when he gets a taste of his own medicine back.


Now that is amusing.

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

Sausage, who constantly insults other chatters regarding their "mental health" telling them to "see a doctor" and who has a juvenile hissy fit when he gets a taste of his own medicine back.


Now that is amusing.

Good to see someone else noticed that whining snowflake and its very telling constant insults and personal attacks using mental health and illness.

 

[Raining_Roses]

Y'all calling Cidal a 'he' and using 'his'....... You make assumptions (would be interesting to know why!) and you haven't been paying attention.
Cidal is female.
I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

Y'all calling Cidal a 'he' and using 'his'....... You make assumptions (would be interesting to know why!) and you haven't been paying attention.
Cidal is female.
I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Huh? Who is talking about Cidal?

Assumption about assumptions!

 

[Raining_Roses]

Huh? Who is talking about Cidal?

Assumption about assumptions!

View attachment 14188

I wasn't referring to yours and Sam's posts- I was referring to the misogynists'.
But hello anyway.

 

[TwoWhalesInAPool]

I wasn't referring to yours and Sam's posts- I was referring to the misogynists'.
But hello anyway.

Assumption about an assumption on assumptions! My bad.

Hello there ..

 

[Raining_Roses]

 

[A_Son_of_God]

profile says male

profile says male . . . . . thats probably the reason they say he

LOL Glad to see you can see logic mate.

It's a shame that those who do the accusing are the ones who spew vomit everywhere they walk, and this world with all its wars and confusing, contradictory laws is made by people, and for people just like them.

This though, is basically the whole point of the article. Jesus - although innocent - was accused of blasphemy, lied about, and persecuted by his enemies. Yet, the scripture stated that Jesus learned obedience from the things he suffered. Jesus learned from this, in that when he was resurrected to heaven, he had learned that being obedient to God (which he did regardless of whether he knew the reasons why or not) was the best course. So letting God's will take place, as the prophecy in Isaiah stated - that Jesus would be abused, treated of no account, and killed - without having to personally address every issue by way of making a defence, demonstrated his obedience, and he learned the benefits of it later, looking back. His subjection to God did not allow him to overstep his role, and start meting out discipline to the liars and manipulators, but let God decide when that would happen. If Jesus had done this, we wouldn't today have the ability to see people like Cidal be allowed to demonstrate their mental thoughts.

So I'm glad they are having their time, as God is so merciful as to let even the demon inspired hatred filled manipulators present their case before the universe that they know a better way of rulership, demonstrating their absolute stupidity before the whole universe. Imagine the memes we'll have in 100 years after the generation of stupidity is ended. True comedy, and something we can laugh at forever.