Women are being injected with date rape drug in nightclubs.

[hell2bwith76]

It's no surprise that young women who join the armed forces fare no better.
In todays news.....

"The UK's military chief has described as "truly shocking" figures shared by an MP that showed a tenfold increase in the number of girls under 18 in the armed forces reporting cases of rape and sexual assault to the military police."

World`s gone crazy but why ?

 

[Saphire]

World`s gone crazy but why ?

The first thing to do is to accept that more men seem to be treating women very badly nowadays, and instead of keeping it quiet some women are speaking out more.

Why??

That's the big question. The internet and the readily available images that show women as emotionless objects?
The backlash of women fighting for equality that seems to frighten some men, so they react with their obvious superior power, physical strength?
Breakdown of family life?

Maybe some or all of that....maybe none of it.

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

On a night out in Newcastle at the weekend, I noticed the "Women's street watch" out in force. Volunteers wearing pink hi-viz jackets patrolling the city centre. They're there to help women who may have had too much to drink to get a taxi, helping females who suspect their drinks have been spiked etc. Fair play to them.

 

[Saphire]

On a night out in Newcastle at the weekend, I noticed the "Women's street watch" out in force. Volunteers wearing pink hi-viz jackets patrolling the city centre. They're there to help women who may have had too much to drink to get a taxi, helping females who suspect their drinks have been spiked etc. Fair play to them.

That's good news. Also after the many recent spiking cases.

In Manchester anti-spiking test kits are to be rolled out across night time venues as part of a new effort to tackle the problem.
Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham and his night-time economy advisor Sacha Lord have announced they are committing to setting up an Anti-Spiking Partnership.

They cost as little as £2 and can be used to detect seven types of drugs, typically associated with drink spiking.
The tests can provide immediate results, which can be used as evidence in court.

 

[Moriarty]

On a night out in Newcastle at the weekend, I noticed the "Women's street watch" out in force. Volunteers wearing pink hi-viz jackets patrolling the city centre. They're there to help women who may have had too much to drink to get a taxi, helping females who suspect their drinks have been spiked etc. Fair play to them.

That used to be what friends were for.
Shame now that society is so broken we need it.

"Story time, my bad "
Back when the gangs used to meet up in the parking areas in the centre of town and kick hell out of each other, the cops (without pink jackets) were always there to drag out those who were getting beat up badly

We actually used to stop fighting if a group of girls were crossing the Market Place to get to another club

It had rules to be respected, no knives, no guns, just a good old saturday night fight.
Never Friday night, everyone was to knackered from work, plus it gave you Sunday to meet up at dinner time for a pint and laugh about it.
Most of the time we never knew who won or lost, it was just what we did.

Sure got the aggression out of young men, a few bruises and the occasional broken nose kept us young lads in line.
Taught us to respect each other and depend on our friends, to be mindful of the world outside our conflicts, to play the game only with those who wanted to play along.

Those same young lads would make sure a women got safely to a taxi, would also make sure some of the more overzealous guys didnt get out of hand.

Back when I was a kid the idea of disrepecting a women was a no go.
If my mates didnt pull me on it, my dad, or even worse my mum would eventually find out and I would suffer

Young people today will drop a friend if something better comes along and the sense of common deciency isnt so common any more.

Yes there have always been a**h****, yes spiking womens drinks has been a thing for decades.
But if anyone we knew would have tried that, a swift educational kicking would have been delivered.

I mean, lets be blunt here, back then, getting a women was a challange, women had to be won.
Pride wouldn't let you do something as vile as drugging some poor girl.

The world has changed so much, I despair for young kids today, the discipline and taught self reliance is gone.
The lack of strong male role models in kids lives is something we know effects behaviour.
The slipping of morals and the lack of imparted fear in kids, that if they feck up there is a price.
That knowledge you keep for life.

Compassion is a virtue, of course, but it is also a weakness.


I'm gonna get chit for this but:-
If those Pink Vests are "taking care" of girls who have drunk to much..
What happened to being responsible for ones own actions?

 

[Saphire]

Moriarty wrote..."That used to be what friends were for."

There is some truth in that, and I'm sure some mates do still look after each other on nights out.
We used to take it in turns to stay relatively sober (no one was driving) to make sure none of us girls was being harassed, and if one did drink too much we always made sure they got home safely.

Obviously no friend, no matter how sober or sensible, can be aware of everything around them when they are in a crowded club, and nor should they have to be.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

@Moriarty

1) Surely lying to someone that sex with them is safe is a violation.

2) I was simply saying in the follow up, that women are just as capable of deceit as men.


Not exactly the same kind of violation, is it?! Yeah, let’s just compare the concept of raping someone while they’re rendered unconscious to a man choosing to take part in sexual intercourse and then having to deal with the results of the interaction.

Nope- still don’t know how you connected those two. Of all the examples of ‘violations’, you had to pick from that particular one from women that one sprang to mind? The depths- and mazes- of your thinking befuddle me! Lest us not forget that that ‘entrapment’ of a man is more of an entrapment for a woman- initially for 9 months of pain, sleepless nights, dry skin & hair, spontaneous sweating, risks of pre-eclampsia, developing diabetes (among other things!), multiple body and emotional changes, strange hands and apparatus going into places that you men would flinch at and whilst rare, we still have a chance of dying in childbirth from something rupturing or shortly afterwards from complications.

I would say the likelihood is that if a woman/girl looks like she’s ‘trapped’ a guy from getting pregnant, the real goal is not him, but a council house and a sad, girlhood dream to be a ‘Mummy’ (i.e. because of no instilled work ethic and an attachment disorder!).

You do realise that most of the examples of deviance of women that you use in your posts are class based, don’t you? And you never mention attachment disorders, which is generally at the root of women- and men- acting in the way do with partners.


We would condemn a known HIV or Aids sufferer for doing this would we not?
I’m feeling generous tonight, so I’ll impart some knowledge- do not trust what humans say- 99% of the time, they’re lying.

If you and A N Other are getting jiggy, you are responsible for yourself, i.e, if you’re a woman, make sure you have a condom on you to give him and learn a number of ways to put it on him, without killing the joy (or letting him know you’ve done it!). Believe me, they’re out there. As a double precaution, make sure your pill is up-to-date and make sure no other medication is interacting with it (like antibiotics. Ok, that was my error and stupidity in believing I didn’t need a condom with the pill! We all learn!).

If you are a man, always have an adequate number of condoms in your pocket/wallet and bloody well use them! And no matter what she says- how she claims to be protecting herself, you can always protect yourself. And get rid of them yourself- be a gentleman, run it under a tap and dispose of it yourself.

You don’t go in to a boxing match expecting your opponent’s gloves to protect your fists- you wear your own.


So why not condemn a women who deliberately entraps a man into a possible lifetime of financial burden, emotional and psychological damage.
Because she is also a recipient of the lifetime of financial burden, emotional and psychological damage. She is also the recipient of physical damage and reputational damage. Children will do that to you, no matter what sex parent you are!

To any woman with half a brain, she would ask exactly how does it benefits her to ‘entrap’ a man by getting pregnant? If he doesn’t love her and doesn’t want to be with her, she has essentially bound herself to someone who will grow to hate her because of that supposed entrapment.

I wouldn’t say that the women who trap men are as abundant as you seem to think they are, although the men that refuse to wear condoms or have bought cheap condoms (which inevitably rip) and don’t check that she’s on the pill, and then scream ‘She trapped me!’ at the appearance of 2 little blue lines, well, they’re quite frequent. It’s a phrase related to egoism (in that they like to think that someone would go to that trouble to keep them) rather than actual entrapment.

Nevertheless, I am not denying there are women, who resort to devious methods in order to get pregnant to keep a man, usually in a dying marriage or long-term relationship. A child to save a marriage or pull back a man they believe is straying or losing interest. In that respect, that is a relationship issue; a misguided hope that a child will save a love. For this, I think entrapment is a very blameful word to use, but f***ing pathetic would be a better term.

Just to simply point out that people are capable of many things, both good and bad.
I’ll debate you on the ‘good’ another time. I have a thread coming up for that subject (No yawning, please!).

 

[CrazyCatLady]

However, rape is illegal, sexual entrapment isnt.
A man can spend 25 years in prison for Rape.
A man can also spend the rest of his life paying for a womens lie.

And so does the woman- it’s called Motherhood and it’s a perpetual torment for the rest of her life. A woman does not benefit from the entrapment and she finds out quite quickly- like the second trimester.

Yes I also know that some men say they can't concieve/have had the snip and have sex with a women who then gets pregnant.
That is just as bad as it can lead to the psychological suffering of abortion or bringing a child into the world based on a lie.

See above regarding personality responsibility and never trusting what a human says. If everyone took that advice, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But alas, my hypocritical self can only speak in hindsight of becoming up the duff after a short-lived fling and raising a child alone!


So please, don't accuse me of being a "Women hater"
I'm simply pointing out that sh** can happen to anyone.


No accusations coming here. You have valid points that I can debate, but it’s not hard to pick up on a lack of sympathy for women out of your posts and a heavy empathy for wronged men, even though you haven’t been in their positions.

If I made a post about a guy who slept with a women and she kept the condom and got inseminated with it, would you react the same way?

I’d debate it in the same way I do anything else and I did in fact invite you to write a post about the male experience, if you recall rightly. Go for it! You have enough material….

 

[Moriarty]

Im going to need more beer..

 

[Moriarty]

@Moriarty

1) Surely lying to someone that sex with them is safe is a violation.

2) I was simply saying in the follow up, that women are just as capable of deceit as men.


Not exactly the same kind of violation, is it?! Yeah, let’s just compare the concept of raping someone while they’re rendered unconscious to a man choosing to take part in sexual intercourse and then having to deal with the results of the interaction.

Nope- still don’t know how you connected those two. Of all the examples of ‘violations’, you had to pick from that particular one from women that one sprang to mind? The depths- and mazes- of your thinking befuddle me! Lest us not forget that that ‘entrapment’ of a man is more of an entrapment for a woman- initially for 9 months of pain, sleepless nights, dry skin & hair, spontaneous sweating, risks of pre-eclampsia, developing diabetes (among other things!), multiple body and emotional changes, strange hands and apparatus going into places that you men would flinch at and whilst rare, we still have a chance of dying in childbirth from something rupturing or shortly afterwards from complications.

I would say the likelihood is that if a woman/girl looks like she’s ‘trapped’ a guy from getting pregnant, the real goal is not him, but a council house and a sad, girlhood dream to be a ‘Mummy’ (i.e. because of no instilled work ethic and an attachment disorder!).

You do realise that most of the examples of deviance of women that you use in your posts are class based, don’t you? And you never mention attachment disorders, which is generally at the root of women- and men- acting in the way do with partners.

Your conflating two totally different "interactions", the word to follow in this is "Choice".

Rape, is by far one of the most, if not the most destructive crime one human can commit on another.
In war it is used as a tool to subjugate and mistakenly "prove" who is the dominent faction, it has long been seen as one of the "Spoils of War" to desecrate that which is most valuable to a society, it's women and girls.

It has been illegal for a long time, yet it happened very frequently in World War 2, especially on the Eastern Front where there was a war of annihilation driven by the political leaders of the time.
It is used to de-humanise a population, to initiate a disgust mechanism which allows one to remove guilt from ones actions against an opposing faction.
However it still happened all to frequently with the allies raping German girls and still goes on in todays conflicts, even by our so called "civilised" societies.

In peacetime Rape has many causes from a sense of entitlement, to acceptance in religous doctrine all the way to psychosis and severe psychological problems, sometimes caused by "attachment disorders" seeing as you are bring that up.

So, to re-iterate, my views on Rape are that it is abhorant and should be condemned in all ways.
Just wanted to make that clear before I continue.

Now to get to your post.

"a man choosing to take part in sexual intercourse and then having to deal with the results of the interaction."
Choice is indeed important, that is what seperates it from Rape.

However, when the interaction is based on a lie, that the women or man has stated it is safe deliberately and by his/her own choosing for whatever reasons he/she has, leads to insemination and a child being born or aborted. (or perhaps an HIV infection or worse just as an aside)

Is that also something that should be discussed, as the word "Choice" has now been removed from the equation.

Take the case that the man has been lied to, now there is a child he has legal, financial and emotional resposibility of, through no fault of his own as he trusted someone.
Same with the womens perspective, she is now faced with the terrible choice of abortion or allowing the child to be born, facing serious emotional damage and/or becoming a mother when she didnt plan for it because she trusted someone.

I know, you can make the argument "Dont trust anyone", but when we are talking about young people who may or may not be that emotionally experienced, who tend to not yet have suffered the crap that life can throw at you, can you blame them for trusting?
Especially if they have no strong role models to explain how life works.

It's fine for a 30-40 something to look back on thier life and say "people are a**h****" but when your 18 your optimistic, hopeful, trusting, looking forward to life and assume everyone else is to

I'm going to ignore the bit about pregnancy, pretty sure all women know how bad it can be yet most of them seem to want to do it.
Societal conditioning or biological imperative, another debate (short lived one).

Now this is to you personally, however offensive you may find it, or not at all.

I am most curious about "sad, girlhood dream to be a ‘Mummy’ (i.e. because of no instilled work ethic and an attachment disorder!)."
Are you implying that some "Girls" have those sad dreams of being a mum, must be lazy and mentally deficient?
After that you added "You do realise that most of the examples of deviance of women that you use in your posts are class based, don’t you?"
So it's only something the "lower" classes would do?
Sounds a little elitist to me.

Curious slight aside:-
Are you of the view that Girls should sort out thier careers before thinking about a family?
I'm curious about your views on what happens post 35-40 when women find it harder to concieve, have a great career, yet they arent happy?
Or those girls who go to Uni, study for 4 years and then decide they want to be a wife and a mother, what effect does that have on society.
Perhaps someone else could have made use of that qualification.
I'd love to hear yout thoughts on those subjects, but back on topic.

Throughout your posts you seem to imply that being pregnant and having children is a burden, hard work?
Yet in my experience yes mothers rightly grumble and moan about the side effects, but when that baby is born, it's like a switch goes off in their head and the child becomes the center of thier world.
Many times to the detriment of their partners, but thats a whole other debate about entitlement.

Then again, having a baby is a choice, one can always not, through abortion.
A luxury a man cannot have if somehow sex leads to pregnancy.
He has no "choice".

 

[Moriarty]

Just to simply point out that people are capable of many things, both good and bad.
I’ll debate you on the ‘good’ another time. I have a thread coming up for that subject (No yawning, please!).

That I'm looking forward to.
Is this thread dead?
So much to talk about.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

That I'm looking forward to.
Is this thread dead?
So much to talk about.

I don't think this thread is dead. I'm on short fly-by's this site, this week, so you'll have to wait until the weekend for me to answer your above but one post and start the thread I have in mind for Altruism
I'll be making daft comments on things, but nothing too meaty until I have more time.

 

[Saphire]

This thread will not be dead till women are treated with respect, both by the men they know and the predatory men who stalk young women when they are out and about, in clubs, pubs, walking along on a public road minding their own business, or simply staying home, where they should be safe, but often are not.

This week alone there has been another two horrendous cases in the national news where women are dead at the hands of abusers.

One case where a man was given a paltry sentence for strangled his girlfriend to death whilst having sex. Campaigns were launched to have his sentence increased, three judges decided serving 4 years and 8 months was quite long enough for throttling his girlfriend to death.

 

[Saphire]

Another case was the stabbing of a mother of six two days ago in Oldham.

Tamby Dowling, 36, suffered stab injuries after she had been attacked on a street in Greater Manchester, and, despite the best efforts of emergency services, she died at the scene.
A 16-year-old girl also required hospital treatment but has since been released.
Officers have today charged Abid Mahmood, 34, with her murder and with a section 18 wounding offence.

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

A case that comes to mind is The Rotherham shoe rapist. He was caught after a cold case review. Convicted of 4 rapes, heinous crimes I think you will all agree. And it makes me wonder how many of his victims didn't go to the police. For destroying all those lives he served a total of just 7 years...

 

[Moriarty]

A case that comes to mind is The Rotherham shoe rapist. He was caught after a cold case review. Convicted of 4 rapes, heinous crimes I think you will all agree. And it makes me wonder how many of his victims didn't go to the police. For destroying all those lives he served a total of just 7 years...

You might want to be careful bringing up Rotherham, or Oldham.
That may bring up grooming gangs, which is racist.

Just a thought.

 

[Moriarty]

I don't think this thread is dead. I'm on short fly-by's this site, this week, so you'll have to wait until the weekend for me to answer your above but one post and start the thread I have in mind for Altruism
I'll be making daft comments on things, but nothing too meaty until I have more time.

Gives you time to think about the questions I asked.
I am curious of your opinions.

Anyway, as always we are discussing ideas, no ones right or wrong.
Just asking questions.

When you know your right, your to ignorant to think your wrong..
Helps us all to accept that we are all wrong sometimes.

Me especially after a few beers

 

[CrazyCatLady]

"a man choosing to take part in sexual intercourse and then having to deal with the results of the interaction."
Choice is indeed important, that is what seperates it from Rape.

1) However, when the interaction is based on a lie, that the women or man has stated it is safe deliberately and by his/her own choosing for whatever reasons he/she has, leads to insemination and a child being born or aborted. (or perhaps an HIV infection or worse just as an aside)

2) Is that also something that should be discussed, as the word "Choice" has now been removed from the equation.

3) Take the case that the man has been lied to, now there is a child he has legal, financial and emotional resposibility of, through no fault of his own as he trusted someone.
Same with the womens perspective, she is now faced with the terrible choice of abortion or allowing the child to be born, facing serious emotional damage and/or becoming a mother when she didnt plan for it because she trusted someone.

4) I know, you can make the argument "Dont trust anyone", but when we are talking about young people who may or may not be that emotionally experienced, who tend to not yet have suffered the crap that life can throw at you, can you blame them for trusting?
Especially if they have no strong role models to explain how life works.

5) It's fine for a 30-40 something to look back on thier life and say "people are a**h****" but when your 18 your optimistic, hopeful, trusting, looking forward to life and assume everyone else is to

6) I'm going to ignore the bit about pregnancy, pretty sure all women know how bad it can be yet most of them seem to want to do it.
Societal conditioning or biological imperative, another debate (short lived one).

Now this is to you personally, however offensive you may find it, or not at all.

I am most curious about "sad, girlhood dream to be a ‘Mummy’ (i.e. because of no instilled work ethic and an attachment disorder!)."
7) Are you implying that some "Girls" have those sad dreams of being a mum, must be lazy and mentally deficient?
After that you added "You do realise that most of the examples of deviance of women that you use in your posts are class based, don’t you?"
8) So it's only something the "lower" classes would do?
9) Sounds a little elitist to me.

Curious slight aside:-
10) Are you of the view that Girls should sort out thier careers before thinking about a family?
I'm curious about your views on what happens post 35-40 when women find it harder to concieve, have a great career, yet they arent happy?
Or those girls who go to Uni, study for 4 years and then decide they want to be a wife and a mother, what effect does that have on society.
Perhaps someone else could have made use of that qualification.
I'd love to hear yout thoughts on those subjects, but back on topic.

11) Throughout your posts you seem to imply that being pregnant and having children is a burden, hard work?
Yet in my experience yes mothers rightly grumble and moan about the side effects, but when that baby is born, it's like a switch goes off in their head and the child becomes the center of thier world.
Many times to the detriment of their partners, but thats a whole other debate about entitlement.

12) Then again, having a baby is a choice, one can always not, through abortion.
A luxury a man cannot have if somehow sex leads to pregnancy.
He has no "choice".

I’ve applied numbers and bold to the text in your post that my answers correspond to:

1) The only contraception that is 100% safe is abstinence. No matter what precautions you take, the reality is the consequence of sexual intercourse can be a pregnancy or an STD. They are risks of the interaction, no matter what protection is professed. Trust, or a lack of, is irrelevant. This is taught in high school- ironically, at a time when teenagers are too hormonal to absorb it.

2) No, it hasn’t been. If you have chosen to take part in an activity where you know there is a risk of adverse consequences, then you agree to them by your participation. It is your choice to partake or not, so the choice is still there. If you drive, you get in your car every day, knowing full well there’s the risk of an accident, whether through someone else’s fault or yours. You still do it, because the majority of the time, there won’t be an accident. However, you could choose to get a bus, a train, walk, stay home. We chose to commit every day actions that carry risks- that’s life- and it’s also life to live with the consequences, no matter how devastating they may be.

3) So, I repeat a prior argument, if it so much of a legal, financial and emotional responsibility, how come it is so easy for a man to shirk? On finding out that his latest conquest is with child, he can easily use the ‘She’s a slag- it’s not mine’ argument. He can also legally refuse a DNA test to prove otherwise, leaving him with no obligation to a child with inconclusive paternity. You write this as if it’s a fact that every man takes responsibility for their loin fruit, when they don’t and it is so much easier to deny responsibility or blame your actions on others, when it hasn’t been pushed out of your vagina. In short, it is easy for a man to deny, lie and disappear than it is for a woman.

4) Trust is also a responsibility- to give and receive it; however, you are correct- inexperience has a lot to answer for and can we blame them for trusting, especially when they have not had the example of caution? Of course not, so why judge their actions or the consequences of their actions so harshly?

I hold my advice through experience, but I have no judgement on single parents, no matter how they got there. Any warnings I give are because I know how bloody hard it is to be in that position. But you do judge- so I throw that question back to you, albeit slightly modified- how can you blame young women for a lack of trust when they have no stable father-figures to look up to? You know, the father’s that position themselves against their mothers, that treat women as conquests or refuse to take responsibility for their offspring?

5) Ok- Paradise by the Dashboard playing in my head here! And this is life. Hindsight is beautiful, but without a time machine, there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. But then why would anyone want to stop optimistic, trusting 18-year-olds?

6) Firstly, how would they know, unless they’ve been through it? Do you know what it feels like to push a melon out of your urethra without doing it? Exactly! Secondly, not quite sure about why they want to keep doing it. There is a hormone rush in the few days following childbirth, which makes us feel invincible and some women talk of the attention when they’re pregnant and when caring for a small baby being addictive. I don’t resonate with that- I hated pregnancy, spent most of it being in pain, throwing up and utterly depressed. I also suffered severe PND and swore blind I would do everything not go through that again- and stuck to that. I also found the stigma with being a single-mother unreasonable. Apparently, I was a **** for doing exactly the same as a man does, except I was dealing with the consequences and he wasn’t. Go figure! Some @rseholes are so judgemental, don’t you think?

Cont.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

"a man choosing to take part in sexual intercourse and then having to deal with the results of the interaction."
Choice is indeed important, that is what seperates it from Rape.

1) However, when the interaction is based on a lie, that the women or man has stated it is safe deliberately and by his/her own choosing for whatever reasons he/she has, leads to insemination and a child being born or aborted. (or perhaps an HIV infection or worse just as an aside)

2) Is that also something that should be discussed, as the word "Choice" has now been removed from the equation.

3) Take the case that the man has been lied to, now there is a child he has legal, financial and emotional resposibility of, through no fault of his own as he trusted someone.
Same with the womens perspective, she is now faced with the terrible choice of abortion or allowing the child to be born, facing serious emotional damage and/or becoming a mother when she didnt plan for it because she trusted someone.

4) I know, you can make the argument "Dont trust anyone", but when we are talking about young people who may or may not be that emotionally experienced, who tend to not yet have suffered the crap that life can throw at you, can you blame them for trusting?
Especially if they have no strong role models to explain how life works.

5) It's fine for a 30-40 something to look back on thier life and say "people are a**h****" but when your 18 your optimistic, hopeful, trusting, looking forward to life and assume everyone else is to

6) I'm going to ignore the bit about pregnancy, pretty sure all women know how bad it can be yet most of them seem to want to do it.
Societal conditioning or biological imperative, another debate (short lived one).

Now this is to you personally, however offensive you may find it, or not at all.

I am most curious about "sad, girlhood dream to be a ‘Mummy’ (i.e. because of no instilled work ethic and an attachment disorder!)."
7) Are you implying that some "Girls" have those sad dreams of being a mum, must be lazy and mentally deficient?
After that you added "You do realise that most of the examples of deviance of women that you use in your posts are class based, don’t you?"
8) So it's only something the "lower" classes would do?
9) Sounds a little elitist to me.

Curious slight aside:-
10) Are you of the view that Girls should sort out thier careers before thinking about a family?
I'm curious about your views on what happens post 35-40 when women find it harder to concieve, have a great career, yet they arent happy?
Or those girls who go to Uni, study for 4 years and then decide they want to be a wife and a mother, what effect does that have on society.
Perhaps someone else could have made use of that qualification.
I'd love to hear yout thoughts on those subjects, but back on topic.

11) Throughout your posts you seem to imply that being pregnant and having children is a burden, hard work?
Yet in my experience yes mothers rightly grumble and moan about the side effects, but when that baby is born, it's like a switch goes off in their head and the child becomes the center of thier world.
Many times to the detriment of their partners, but thats a whole other debate about entitlement.

12) Then again, having a baby is a choice, one can always not, through abortion.
A luxury a man cannot have if somehow sex leads to pregnancy.
He has no "choice".

7) Q1- Mmm…ahh, now you’re grasping some of my judgements. I don’t judge that they are lazy and/or mentally deficient- it takes a lot of energy, focus and determination to raise a human in to the kind of human that is a benefit to society. But do I think that dreams of motherhood indicate an emotional deficiency of some kind. Perhaps, deficiency is a strong word. An instability- a co-dependency. And that is where my judgement comes in- I see co-dependency as a weakness of character. If you want to positively influence the next generation become a teacher, a mentor, a foster carer- you don’t have to breed to fulfil that vocation. If a woman sees her life’s purpose as a mother, then be a mother and provide it to children whose mothers failed them. There are plenty out there.

But let’s not drop off the focus here- my replies are in response to YOUR judgemental view of women. Let’s summarise from the information you’ve posted: (a) you think badly of women who open their legs without a contract/promise from the man and blame them for breeding without a ring on it (b) women are devious little sh!ts that fake pregnancies often and screw men over for maintenance.

8) Q2- Lmao! You’re a Social Psychologist- you know you’re using examples of behaviour of women from working and lower classes. Young women with funds from Mummy & Daddy to go to university get abortions, because they generally don’t see their futures wrapped up in a man they meet and date for a night/ few weeks/months. There are class differences in attachment styles- albeit not all positive- but when it comes to insecure attachment styles, there are undeniable class influences, especially now-a-days.

9) You mean ‘realist’ now, don’t you?!

10) What exactly has Q3 & 4 got to do with the subject matter or the fact that in a thread about women being injected with a date-rape drug, you brought up the deviousness of women as if to counter-act the original thread topic? You have gone off on a tangent that is not worthy of an answer in this thread or this post. If you want to know my answers, I suggest you start a thread, beginning with your negativities of women (for example, your pious views on the qualifications they should demand of a man before they sleep with them) and then when others argue them, deflect by saying good things about women.

11) ‘To the detriment of their partner’. Wow- what a selfish way to see the practice of being a good mother. Making sure the needs are met of a small human that cannot meet them themselves Vs mothering a big human that throws his toy out of the pram, because he can’t take coming second in his woman’s life after she’s given birth to HIS child. I know who I’d chose!

12) Yes, he does- he can walk away. Often, they do. And you want a woman’s right to choose, do you? Which, for an unwanted pregnancy, is an invasive, emotionally traumatic medical procedure or being a single-parent, dealing with views of the self-righteous like yourself, and constantly having defend yourself against men that think you’re a ‘****’. Yeah- a woman’s right to choose is everything! It’s our body that has to go through that medical procedure- us that have to live with the trauma of murdering an innocent child, but hey- if a man had the right to choose, the abortion clinics would be 24 hours opening and there’d be a lot more female bodies to pick up from the bottom of bridges. Is that how you propose it should work, Moriarty?

I’m confused, Moriarty- you play the pity card for men (which to be frank, only works on men and Ladyonarooftop) and then, when challenged, throw in a few ‘pro-woman’ arguments for good measure- is that to avoid the hail storm? I’m not sure. But you conflict your argument, go off on a tangent and it makes replying to you hard. I feel like I’m dealing with a Schizophrenic Mother.

 

[Moriarty]

If you have chosen to take part in an activity where you know there is a risk of adverse consequences, then you agree to them by your participation. It is your choice to partake or not, so the choice is still there. If you drive, you get in your car every day, knowing full well there’s the risk of an accident, whether through someone else’s fault or yours. You still do it, because the majority of the time, there won’t be an accident. However, you could choose to get a bus, a train, walk, stay home. We chose to commit every day actions that carry risks- that’s life- and it’s also life to live with the consequences, no matter how devastating they may be.

Thank you.
You just made my point.

My orignal post in reply to Flatline was :-

I cant comprehend any man spiking drinks or injections or hurting any woman, makes me angry, what a sad world we live in

Me to.
Neither can I comprehend a women deliberately having unprotected sex with a guy when she knows she is not protected, then getting pregnant and railing his ass for child support.
But it happens.

There are always risks in any action, no matter how rare.

Including going to a bar where one may or may not get drugged and raped.

As for the rest, I need more beer for that