What is reasonable force..

[TheBabayaga]

Ok let's just say hypertheticly, youre at home, feet upafter a hard day plaughing the fields, done feeding the lil piggies and suckling the cows err sucklers, looks like rice cripsies back on the morning menu..yerss you were thinking that exact thought when all of a sudden out of nowhere, your window smashes, [little one in the front door].

You walk over hesitantly not sure if maybe it could be a bird flying into it, satnav gave it wrong directions or could be ..well anything but what it actualy was. Alas to your horror, it wasn't a bird lost but a badly worn balaclava, you can see its the asshole 5 doors away always theiving peoples things.

What would you consider to be reasonable force in this situation... after all a criminal lookin at jail time is sure to do something desperate including trying to beat you with a stick...

What say you.

 

[Moriarty]

Dial 999, tell them your house has been burgled, then keeping the line open walk over to the asshole and start a conversation.
Thats all you need..
Maybe a bat if your not confident.
Eventually they will swing at you, then you can kick thier ass, legally.

 

[Wojcik]

Ok let's just say hypertheticly, youre at home, feet upafter a hard day plaughing the fields, done feeding the lil piggies and suckling the cows err sucklers, looks like rice cripsies back on the morning menu..yerss you were thinking that exact thought when all of a sudden out of nowhere, your window smashes, [little one in the front door].

You walk over hesitantly not sure if maybe it could be a bird flying into it, satnav gave it wrong directions or could be ..well anything but what it actualy was. Alas to your horror, it wasn't a bird lost but a badly worn balaclava, you can see its the asshole 5 doors away always theiving peoples things.

What would you consider to be reasonable force in this situation... after all a criminal lookin at jail time is sure to do something desperate including trying to beat you with a stick...

What say you.

There's very little you can do about burglaries in this country. We've had two break ins over the decades we've lived here, but that was when we didn't have double glazing or could afford better security. Now we have an online neighbourhood watch in the cul-de-sac and report any suspicious behaviour that we've caught on camera during the day when people are at work, and during the night when people are asleep.

Another important thing to have is contents insurance as well as house insurance. This includes electrical good, furniture, kitchen appliances, clothing and other items. So it's best to get that just in case.

As for the Police, they're pretty damn useless when it concerns crime, and will only arrive after the crime is committed. For the most part, they don't want to know and will usually tell you to contact your insurance provider.

 

[Dropship]

True story-
In 2001 I tipped off Leicester police about local drug dealers but the coppers never did a thing.
Then the drug gang complained that I was "harassing" them by watching them, so the police swept smoothly into action and arrested ME and I got 3 months in Leicester prison on a vigilante rap, you couldn't friggin make it up..
PS- the drug gang were black..

 

[TheBabayaga]

True story-
In 2001 I tipped off Leicester police about local drug dealers but the coppers never did a thing.
Then the drug gang complained that I was "harassing" them by watching them, so the police swept smoothly into action and arrested ME and I got 3 months in Leicester prison on a vigilante rap, you couldn't friggin make it up..
PS- the drug gang were black..

View attachment 12878

Those same coppas, were probably supplying the drugs thats why. They just can't be trusted.

 

[Dropship]

Those same coppas, were probably supplying the drugs thats why. They just can't be trusted.

Yeah and wait, it gets worse-
Big Black Bernie the drug gang ringleader never turned up at court to give "evidence"against me, perhaps he'd decided not to press charges, but guess what?- instead of therefore dismissing the case the beaks and the coppers sent a car to his house to talk him into coming !
As I said to my solicitor- "I wonder if it was a chauffeur driven Rolls?"..

Wait, the pantomime gets worse-
They put Bernie on the witness stand and he started rambling on about "I know i've done GBH to people in the past but I'm a reformed character now and I worship Hailie Selassi" blah blah but his solicitor had to remind him that he needn't defend himself because it wasn't him who was on trial !
Later some local residents who were on my side were called to the stand, and despite them saying "Everybody knows Bernie sells drugs", the beaks still sent me to jail..

 

[A_Son_of_God]

Yeah and wait, it gets worse-
Big Black Bernie the drug gang ringleader never turned up at court to give "evidence"against me, perhaps he'd decided not to press charges, but guess what?- instead of therefore dismissing the case the beaks and the coppers sent a car to his house to talk him into coming !
As I said to my solicitor- "I wonder if it was a chauffeur driven Rolls?"..

Wait, the pantomime gets worse-
They put Bernie on the witness stand and he started rambling on about "I know i've done GBH to people in the past but I'm a reformed character now and I worship Hailie Selassi" blah blah but his solicitor had to remind him that he needn't defend himself because it wasn't him who was on trial !
Later some local residents who were on my side were called to the stand, and despite them saying "Everybody knows Bernie sells drugs", the beaks still sent me to jail..

Welcome to the legal world of technicalities. This is the world that we humans have made, and we've done such a wonderful job of it, justice is gone. Innocent go to prison, and the guilty get treated as victims. Still, it is only going to last for a short time. People are being allowed to tie their own laces for now, but soon, we'll be watching as they trip over their knots.

 

[Dropship]

Welcome to the legal world of technicalities. This is the world that we humans have made, and we've done such a wonderful job of it, justice is gone. Innocent go to prison, and the guilty get treated as victims..

Yes, and the mush-brained masses are to blame for voting mushbrained mainstream politicians into power over the years.



My politics are Christian right-wing and I vote for the minority rightwing parties.
People tell me "You're wasting your vote because they'll never get in" to which I reply "Never say never, and anyway it makes me feel bloody good to know I vote for the patriotic parties and am therefore not responsible for the mess the mainstream parties are making of things"..

 

[Dropship]

Returning to this threads 'Reasonable Force' topic, the notorious 1999 case of farmer Tony Martin springs to mind.
He shot and killed an intruder in his farmhouse and got jailed, but there was such a groundswell of public support for him that he was released after 3 years..

Pic from TV documentary-

Tony Martin (farmer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dropship]

Good news- this bloke (left below) got off scot-free after killing an intruder (right), so things are beginning to look up..

Gypsy burglar was lawfully killed – Court News UK

courtnewsuk.co.uk

PS- the gypsy "community" laid wreaths and stuff in the street but local residents trashed them, haha..

 

[Raining_Roses]

As a woman, I would class any behaviours resulting from anxiety induced hysteria to be 'reasonable force' in this situation. Any man entering or trying to enter my private space without consent is in possession of a biological weapon that can potentially harm me, so any actions I take to protect myself could be seen as 'reasonable force'- including the use of every day household chemicals and sprays, and the lighter I keep handy.

 

[Dropship]

As a woman, I would class any behaviours resulting from anxiety induced hysteria to be 'reasonable force' in this situation. Any man entering or trying to enter my private space without consent is in possession of a biological weapon that can potentially harm me, so any actions I take to protect myself could be seen as 'reasonable force'- including the use of every day household chemicals and sprays, and the lighter I keep handy.

Yes I wanted to buy pepper sprays for my grown-up nieces but amazingly discovered they're banned in the UK, so people have to improvise.
There are so-called legal "defence sprays" on the market but all they do is mark the assailants face and clothes with a pretty colour so the police can identify him later, assuming of course he hasn't washed his face and dumped his clothes..
Guns would be the best protection but guess what?- Yup, ordinary law-abiding citizens ain't allowed to have them.

Below- in a paralell universe...

 

[Raining_Roses]

Any kind of mould cleaner or the purple Cillit Bang is as good as pepper spray- in fact, better. If you've ever mistakenly got this stuff on your skin, you'll know why. You just have to keep the nozzles clean for a good distance jet.
There are also homemade sprays, many of which contain chilli's or hot spices readily available in shops.

It's paramount that all women learn basic self defence, but anyone with a creative mind can look around their home and find weapons to protect themselves that are not necessarily weapons. And in a court of law, would mitigate intention of harm to the intruder.

I don't believe that everyone should be able to carry guns- anyone, including 'law abiding citizens' can have a mental health breakdown and that gun becomes a weapon in the wrong hands.

 

[Wojcik]

Any kind of mould cleaner or the purple Cillit Bang is as good as pepper spray- in fact, better. If you've ever mistakenly got this stuff on your skin, you'll know why. You just have to keep the nozzles clean for a good distance jet.
There are also homemade sprays, many of which contain chilli's or hot spices readily available in shops.

It's paramount that all women learn basic self defence, but anyone with a creative mind can look around their home and find weapons to protect themselves that are not necessarily weapons. And in a court of law, would mitigate intention of harm to the intruder.

I don't believe that everyone should be able to carry guns- anyone, including 'law abiding citizens' can have a mental health breakdown and that gun becomes a weapon in the wrong hands.

If you can get to those appliances in time that is. It's fiction vs non-fiction here, and I don't think you're the only one who thinks they'll do this, this, and that, but the reality is that burglaries are so unpredictable. The two we had were during the night when everyone was asleep, so we had no idea we had been burgled until the very next morning when we realised a lot of the appliances were missing from the house.
You don't know if they are alone or have come in groups. You also don't know if they have weapons of their own, just in case the victim becomes irrational and do try to react against them breaking in.

So i think people's best bet is to make sure you are insured, but also investing in security. So that could mean motion security lights outside your house that will illuminate a darkened area if someone does happen to come up the pathway, or even something simple like making sure your windows and doors are closed before you go to bed(I know people tend to leave windows open during hot nights).

 

[Dropship]

I knew a bloke some years ago who was plagued by the cheeky kids next door who used to climb his garden fence to nick things from his garden shed, so he filled a small 3" long squeezy bottle with vinegar and lay in wait hidden like a sniper and gave them a face full and they ran off rubbing their eyes.
He'd watered it down so's not to cause permanent eye damage but it still did its job.
He said the advantage of a squirt bottle is that the jet carries further than a spray.
PS- I hear he also used to carry the bottle in his pocket to use against muggers and pit bulls, he sounds like a switched on guy.
Nowadays of course if the coppers got wind of anybody who did that it'd be a case of-

 

[Dropship]

..something simple like making sure your windows and doors are closed before you go to bed (I know people tend to leave windows open during hot nights).

I learnt that the hard way when I lived in a ground floor flat, I left a window open while I nipped to the shops, and when I got back some minor non-valuable stuff had been filched; a neighbour told me he'd seen local kids climbing in.
I reported the names of the kids to the coppers but they never followed it up.

PS- And another time I learnt we shouldn't leave things on our windowsill; I was visiting my elderly mother in her bungalow, she'd gone to bed and i was in the living room watching a film on TV after midnight when half a brick came sailing through the window and somebody grabbed a cheap but expensive-looking pot from the windowsill.
I called the coppers but they just stood looking bored and never followed it up, they probably thought it was my mams fault for leaving the thing on the sill.

 

[Dropship]

Haha this from todays news, a dumbass cyclist gets payback..

Cyclist violently assaulted after crashing into girl, 3, in east London

The cyclist suffered a broken jaw which required ‘extensive’ surgery

www.aol.co.uk

 

[Raining_Roses]

If you can get to those appliances in time that is. It's fiction vs non-fiction here, and I don't think you're the only one who thinks they'll do this, this, and that, but the reality is that burglaries are so unpredictable. The two we had were during the night when everyone was asleep, so we had no idea we had been burgled until the very next morning when we realised a lot of the appliances were missing from the house.
You don't know if they are alone or have come in groups. You also don't know if they have weapons of their own, just in case the victim becomes irrational and do try to react against them breaking in.

So i think people's best bet is to make sure you are insured, but also investing in security. So that could mean motion security lights outside your house that will illuminate a darkened area if someone does happen to come up the pathway, or even something simple like making sure your windows and doors are closed before you go to bed(I know people tend to leave windows open during hot nights).

I hear/read you, however, I'd just like to point out here- you've never lived with anyone with an anxiety based personality disorder or someone who experiences stress induced psychosis, have you?
We're always prepped and ready for the 'unexpected', because we can't leave anything to chance. I sit here now and can see a number of weapons to hand that the average person (i.e. you) cannot see, for example, the pen that can quickly be used to stab, the mini screwdriver set (for my glasses) on the coffee table that I could slip into my hand and poke through my fingers for a knuckle duster, the nail polish remover on a shelf underneath the table....actually, the list is endless!
That's just sitting in the front room. I wouldn't want to divulge what I have under my pillow
Some of us are ready for the fiction, because in our minds, it could be fact at any time.

Personally, I think insurance is throwing money at something that may or may not happen- at least, I don't have to pay for my kind of insurance! Also, how do you put a price on items that have emotional value? I live simply and basically- I don't have a lot of electricals and those I do, you can pick up in Cash Generator for less than you would buy a crowbar.

 

[TheBabayaga]

I hear/read you, however, I'd just like to point out here- you've never lived with anyone with an anxiety based personality disorder or someone who experiences stress induced psychosis, have you?
We're always prepped and ready for the 'unexpected', because we can't leave anything to chance. I sit here now and can see a number of weapons to hand that the average person (i.e. you) cannot see, for example, the pen that can quickly be used to stab, the mini screwdriver set (for my glasses) on the coffee table that I could slip into my hand and poke through my fingers for a knuckle duster, the nail polish remover on a shelf underneath the table....actually, the list is endless!
That's just sitting in the front room. I wouldn't want to divulge what I have under my pillow
Some of us are ready for the fiction, because in our minds, it could be fact at any time.

Personally, I think insurance is throwing money at something that may or may not happen- at least, I don't have to pay for my kind of insurance! Also, how do you put a price on items that have emotional value? I live simply and basically- I don't have a lot of electricals and those I do, you can pick up in Cash Generator for less than you would buy a crowbar.

..are there people with dark shades and dodgy lookin suits constantly following you by any chance?

 

[Dropship]

We're always prepped and ready for the 'unexpected', because we can't leave anything to chance...

Good for you..
In Prepper / Survivalist forums the message to non-preppers is-
"We live, you die"..