Things we should apologise for...

[Moriarty]

I disagree with you here mate. Following a book blindly is your perspective. Notice I haven't addressed the rest yet, as I want to clarify this point first. If it isn't clarified, it means the conversation will not address the issues at hand accurately.

The Bible is a collection of books, firstly, along with letters. Secondly, it isn't a "book" that I follow, but the teachings of God that I've studied, and am now convinced they are from God. Also, it is not an end-all to everything.

For instance, the Bible states that at the end of the system, there will be new scrolls opened. So all that is written is not complete. Just as knowledge is slowly revealed, so is God's will.

On addition to this, I study many things. I love studying things that I see an interest in, or have a question I want answered that may be hard to find.

Religion is complex, as are the origins. Due to practical reasons, the majority of people prefer the lie to the truth, as the truth means one has to either accept they are living a lie, or change, in the face of ridicule and disagreement of those who don't yet see the truth in things. Others have given up, and just state - as did Pontius Pilate - "What is truth?", where he was stating mockingly that truth is up to each one of us to decide. If this is the case, then why are there jails? Poor little serial killers just living out their truths. Know what I mean?

You are right.
If everyone followed the codes and or laws laid down in biblical texts society would be a better place, if they followed one religion.
For example, the Jewish faith has commandments which means they have to wash themselves many times a day.
Hence when diseases struck, they seemed to be immune.

We later found out that washing helps prevent illness.
However, they were blamed for the spread of those same diseases.

So the Jewish faith saved themselves by following thier religious beliefs yet were condemned by others who didnt.

Just as the Crusades would never happen if we accepted the teachings of the one god.
Nor would Jihad be followed by those who accepted by the realisation there is only one god.

Religion is opinion, irrespective of whether god exists or not.
It is down to the localised ideology of both the place and the time.

God does not cause war, the interpretation of god's word or will does that.
Which is human.

Wherever you find religious belief you will find those who seek to use it for ends which have little to do with god, but more to do with earthly power.

As I have said, I am agnostic, I do not know, so I can no more argue against god or for he/she/it/them as I can argue that science is right.
We dont "Know".

I do however stand by my belief that both religion and science are political tools to control society.

 

[A_Son_of_God]

You are right.
If everyone followed the codes and or laws laid down in biblical texts society would be a better place, if they followed one religion.
For example, the Jewish faith has commandments which means they have to wash themselves many times a day.
Hence when diseases struck, they seemed to be immune.

We later found out that washing helps prevent illness.
However, they were blamed for the spread of those same diseases.

So the Jewish faith saved themselves by following thier religious beliefs yet were condemned by others who didnt.

Just as the Crusades would never happen if we accepted the teachings of the one god.
Nor would Jihad be followed by those who accepted by the realisation there is only one god.

Religion is opinion, irrespective of whether god exists or not.
It is down to the localised ideology of both the place and the time.

God does not cause war, the interpretation of god's word or will does that.
Which is human.

Wherever you find religious belief you will find those who seek to use it for ends which have little to do with god, but more to do with earthly power.

As I have said, I am agnostic, I do not know, so I can no more argue against god or for he/she/it/them as I can argue that science is right.
We dont "Know".

I do however stand by my belief that both religion and science are political tools to control society.

I like your opinion, and I see where you're coming from, inasmuch as seeing it as political. Most religions have sided with the political nations in one way or another, and use it to push their ideals.

Even those of us who aren't involved in politics of the world - we're neutral to political ideologies - still have a kingdom that we are subordinate to in the full sense, while we're subordinate to the political rulerships in a relative sense.

Control isn't necessarily a bad thing. Abuse of control is though. It is humans who do this.

 

[Altair]

Where did the BIBLE stories come from?

EGYPT.

And the worship of the SUN.

You BIBLE believers and GOD believers need to wake up.

There is NO God or Gods.

Never has been and there will never be.

Creation comes from Stars Exploding.

When will you get it into your head...There is NO need for a god to create life.

 

[Raining_Roses]

The Church of Scotland is to apologise for historic links it had with the slave trade. It got me wondering if there's anything we English should redress...
Straight away I can think of Agincourt where on the orders of Henry V upwards of 700 French POW's were executed. A war crime i'm sure you will agree. I
apologise to the French nation. Vive La France!

If you feel the need to apologise for any of your ancestors actions, feel free...

My ancestors have nothing to be sorry for, so I can't join in with the historical guilt....oh wait- the IRA My great-grandfather was a volunteer in the early 1920's and involved in a prominent stand-off with the Black and Tans. I also have ancestors from the 1800's who fought in the rebellion, so probably did their fair of shooting and bludgeoning.

However, in their defence, the British did starve them out of their farms and homes, and force a few of them on to the coffin ships for which they will be waiting for an apology from the British till St Patrick returns to rid the country of Catholicism.

 

[tequila_sunrise]

The Church of Scotland is to apologise for historic links it had with the slave trade. It got me wondering if there's anything we English should redress...
Straight away I can think of Agincourt where on the orders of Henry V upwards of 700 French POW's were executed. A war crime i'm sure you will agree. I
apologise to the French nation. Vive La France!

If you feel the need to apologise for any of your ancestors actions, feel free...

you should apologize to the forums for being a fake
your no women your Wicked perdition
stands out a mile you are

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

you should apologize to the forums for being a fake
your no women your Wicked perdition
stands out a mile you are

How very dare you call me wicked, miss chevious, quite possibly.
Like, half the population, it is my inalienable right to identify as a woman, I will not be oppressed! My pronouns are she/her. thank you.

 

[Moriarty]

you should apologize to the forums for being a fake
your no women your Wicked perdition
stands out a mile you are

If that is true, it's so sad.

 

[WickedPerdition]

How very dare you call me wicked, miss chevious, quite possibly.
Like, half the population, it is my inalienable right to identify as a woman, I will not be oppressed! My pronouns are she/her. thank you.

I wish to apologise for impersonating you and leading the Forum astray.
I promise that it won't happen again.
.

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

I wish to apologise for impersonating you and leading the Forum astray.
I promise that it won't happen again.
.

Mistaken for you? I wish! I envy your command of the English language. I've never mentioned this before but I wish to apologise for being so uneducated. (I blame Labour for closing the local grammar school I should have went to, but ended up at the crummy comprehensive school. A chip on my shoulder that i'll take to the grave.)

 

[Moriarty]

Mistaken for you? I wish! I envy your command of the English language. I've never mentioned this before but I wish to apologise for being so uneducated. (I blame Labour for closing the local grammar school I should have went to, but ended up at the crummy comprehensive school. A chip on my shoulder that i'll take to the grave.)

Wow elitist much.
I was meant to go to a private school but didnt want to.
To stuck up for me, preferred being normal.
Funny that it closed down 2 years after I was meant to go there.
Why did it close down, teachers fiddling with kids.
Count myself lucky.
I had a library and a working class father who took the time to teach me practical things and a wannabe middle class mother who stayed the feck away from me lol

 

[WickedPerdition]

Mistaken for you? I wish! I envy your command of the English language. I've never mentioned this before but I wish to apologise for being so uneducated. (I blame Labour for closing the local grammar school I should have went to, but ended up at the crummy comprehensive school. A chip on my shoulder that i'll take to the grave.)

Why do people always think that everyone goes around UK Chat trying to impersonate other chatters?
I can imagine that some attempt to emulate others because they are unable to establish their own persona.
Without wishing to sound elitist, I am glad that I wasn't subjected to a comprehensive school education, although it would appear that you fared well all things considered ...
No, but seriously, you express yourself very logically and articulately and I value your opinion here.
Keep up the good work.

 

[Kev45]

7% of the population are privately educated.

"According to The Sutton Trust and the Social Mobility Commission, two-fifths (39%) of those in “top” positions – such as senior judges, ministers and diplomats – attended an independent school.

The most common pathway into a “highest status” job is attending independent school followed by Oxford or Cambridge, making up 17% of the whole group, according to the report."

Young people with a state school background and with similar A-Level results OUTPERFORM the privately educated at university, and including Russel group universities.

Young people from poorer backgrounds are also far more likely to work during term time, further hindering their progress.

State students 'win better degrees'

State school students achieve better degree results than comparative students from independent schools, according to an authoritative new study.

www.theguardian.com

Suggesting it isn't as simple as sh*t state education holding young people back.

(class and old boys network cough cough)

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

It was a truly awful state school I attended... Packed with kids that didn't want to learn, but more importantly, teachers that couldn't teach. I can still picture to this day one of the teachers. He always wore tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows, and he had a bald patch. We only saw him from behind because he was always turned away from us, facing the blackboard (can we still say that?) and he just wrote on it for the duration of the whole lesson, and we copied it all into our exercise books...

 

[WickedPerdition]

It was a truly awful state school I attended... Packed with kids that didn't want to learn, but more importantly, teachers that couldn't teach. I can still picture to this day one of the teachers. He always wore tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows, and he had a bald patch. We only saw him from behind because he was always turned away from us, facing the blackboard (can we still say that?) and he just wrote on it for the duration of the whole lesson, and we copied it all into our exercise books...

Stop it! You're killing me.

 

[Kev45]

I understand how sh*t the comprehensive system was (still is) because my father was in the Armed Forces (infantry) and as a family we moved every two years (or earlier). Somewhat bizarrely, I was lumped into "physics" and "chemistry" in my final year in my final school, although I had never studied them previously. All my teachers seemed to be burly ex military, burnt out old timers, or wide-eyed idealist university graduates. Immediately immersed in a culture of failure courtesy of their burnt out peers still hanging around like a bad smell waiting for their generous state pension.

The only end goal for both me and my brothers was unskilled manual labour, hopefully in the state sector, because of the "perks" of the job and a reasonably decent pension. Going back to my last post, sweet FA has changed, a large percentage of kids from poorer backgrounds still do sh*t at school and are still the least likely to go on to further education. The "academy" system is just another fancy term for the comprehensive system it replaced. A sticking plaster that cost untold billions but which is still bound by the same red tape and box ticking, rigid ideology and an overall lack of ambition in direct relation to those kids from poorer backgrounds.

I don't blame any teachers, far from it, the sector inadvertently creates mediocrity fuelled by the demand for an endless supply of cheap labor to fill vacancies, in a fast moving ravenous service sector driven economy, now driven by new technology. The British state was never going to keep pace with new technology, it really never does, we are always a decade behind everyone else.

 

[Moriarty]

It was a truly awful state school I attended... Packed with kids that didn't want to learn, but more importantly, teachers that couldn't teach. I can still picture to this day one of the teachers. He always wore tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows, and he had a bald patch. We only saw him from behind because he was always turned away from us, facing the blackboard (can we still say that?) and he just wrote on it for the duration of the whole lesson, and we copied it all into our exercise books...

Damn that must have been hell.
My Maths teacher was the same, never looked at us, always to busy chalking stuff up on the board.
My chemistry teacher, real old school used to throw board rubbers at anyone not paying attention.
Yet they were the best teachers I ever had, because I talked to them outside class.
But my favourite teacher, my English teacher, said to me "Stop writing as fast as you think, because your handwriting is terrible."
She knew I had to stop and think, made me reflect on what I was writing.
She pulled me aside after asking us all to write a short story, mine was 27 pages long.
She said "You can say so much in one sentence, why use 4, be succinct and say what you mean"
Plus she made me read Dostoevsky.
That was a "commoners" comprehensive school.
Glad I'm a commoner.

 

[doonhamer3]

Feel free to express disgust etc. for historical events but why apologise for events that occurred generations and centuries before our time.
Do we take it to extremes and expect all or parts of Italy to apologise for the Roman Empire taking slaves from all of the lands they conquered ?

 

[Moriarty]

Feel free to express disgust etc. for historical events but why apologise for events that occurred generations and centuries before our time.
Do we take it to extremes and expect all or parts of Italy to apologise for the Roman Empire taking slaves from all of the lands they conquered ?

Because some people need the grift.
At some point in life all societies were slaves to someone else.
It's just some wont let it go.

To be honest, it's tedious to have to time and again educate people to how slavery isnt gone, its taken a different form.
It's still happening today.
Yet those that harp on about it want it to be historical, it's about thier "History"
Yeah well tell them that the UK almost bankrupted itself by forcing many other countries to abolish slavery.
Which it did through the colonies and Africa, at least westward, the slave trade from Africa to the Middle East is still alive and well.

Tell them that modern slavery probably makes thier iPhone, not because Apple employs slavery, but the mines which produce the rare earth minerals in Africa do.

People are generally to busy with living thier lives.
With 2.2 kids and half a dog.
They dont have the time to actually see what the real world is like for the millions who literally slave away to produce the raw materials for thier comfortable life.

Plus, it tends to make one depressed, better to just accept life as it is and not think about it to much.

 

[TheBabayaga]

It was a truly awful state school I attended... Packed with kids that didn't want to learn, but more importantly, teachers that couldn't teach. I can still picture to this day one of the teachers. He always wore tweed jackets with leather patches on the elbows, and he had a bald patch. We only saw him from behind because he was always turned away from us, facing the blackboard (can we still say that?) and he just wrote on it for the duration of the whole lesson, and we copied it all into our exercise books...

wow, sounds like he taught you the art of how to come across as awake when in reality you fast asleep bored close to the brink of frekin death!