Shamed Shamima!

LadyOnArooftop

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She can't come in! :)
She was filmed yesterday at the detention camp in Syria, wearing leggings, a leather jacket and sunglasses. A far cry from last year when she was dressed all in black and carrying what looked like a bundle of rags. :rolleyes: The supreme court has ruled she can't come back to the UK to challenge her loss of citizenship. Rightly so! Just think about that for a moment. If she had been allowed back and then lost her appeal, would she then have been escorted back to Syria? Hardly
 

Wojcik

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She was filmed yesterday at the detention camp in Syria, wearing leggings, a leather jacket and sunglasses. A far cry from last year when she was dressed all in black and carrying what looked like a bundle of rags. :rolleyes: The supreme court has ruled she can't come back to the UK to challenge her loss of citizenship. Rightly so! Just think about that for a moment. If she had been allowed back and then lost her appeal, would she then have been escorted back to Syria? Hardly

I think it would have set a dangerous precedent if it was ruled that she was allowed to stay here. It would encourage others who have become radical, to travel to those countries, fight for the Islamic State, and if that doesn't work out, come home without any consequences of your actions.
They tried to argue that she was only 15, a child, and that she didn't know what she was getting herself into. But this is the same "child" who felt nothing when she saw a severed head in a bin.
 

TwoWhalesInAPool

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On the same level. Any thoughts on the lack of outrage following the sentence for 18 yr old Harry Vaughan, from south-west London?
[Nov 2020]

''In a pre-sentence report, Vaughan indicated there were no “significant political”, “racist or homophobic” views expressed during his upbringing. The teenager’s father, who was in court, is a clerk in the House of Lords and his mother is a teacher.

The judge took account of the defendant’s young age and his diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder. He also acknowledged a letter from Vaughan’s parents, who are committed to helping him “change for the better”.''


(quote)
''A teenage Satanist and far-right extremist has been given a suspended sentence after posting bomb-making manuals on neo-Nazi forums and downloading indecent images of children.

harry.jpg
photo: Harry Vaughan via Guardian article.

Harry Vaughan, 18, a grammar school pupil who achieved four A* grades in his A-levels, was sentenced at the Old Bailey on Monday after admitting 14 terrorism offences and two child abuse image offences. He was given two years’ detention suspended for two years.

Vaughan was arrested by police in June last year following an investigation into an online forum called Fascist Forge.

Police found that the teenager, of south-west London, had been concealing his identity behind numerous aliases and boasting about school shootings, sharing explosives manuals and neo-Nazi propaganda online, expressing homophobic views and downloading indecent images of underage boys.

Digital forensic specialists retrieved 4,200 images and 302 files from Vaughan’s devices including an extreme rightwing terrorist book and documents relating to Satanism, neo-Nazism and antisemitism.

Police also discovered graphics encouraging acts of terrorism in the name of the proscribed organisation Sonnenkrieg Division and footage of the 2019 Christchurch mosque massacre.

Several homemade posters were found in the bedroom of the teenager, who attended Tiffin grammar school in Kingston-upon-Thames in Surrey.

One featured the Norwegian far-right killer Anders Breivik and the words “every girl loves a mass murderer” and “it’s okay to be a Nazi”.

Richard Smith, the head of the Met’s counter-terrorism command, said the case showed that any young person can be susceptible to radicalisation.

He said: “Harry Vaughan is an intelligent young man … yet, online, he was an enthusiastic participant of rightwing terrorist forums.

“His case illustrates it is possible for any young person to be susceptible to radicalisation, so today I really want to appeal to everyone to be as vigilant as possible for signs that a young loved one may be in trouble.”

In a pre-sentence report, Vaughan indicated there were no “significant political”, “racist or homophobic” views expressed during his upbringing. The teenager’s father, who was in court, is a clerk in the House of Lords and his mother is a teacher.

The judge took account of the defendant’s young age and his diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder. He also acknowledged a letter from Vaughan’s parents, who are committed to helping him “change for the better”.

His extremist views, which he now claims to have renounced, were said to be “driven by internet use”.

Prosecutor Dan Pawson-Pounds said: “The material demonstrated unequivocally that Vaughan had an entrenched extreme rightwing and racist mindset, as well as an interest in explosives, firearms and violence more generally.”

Vaughan’s barrister, Naeem Mian QC, told the Old Bailey that a “toxic cocktail of factors” had led the defendant to “disappear down a rabbit hole of the internet” into a “very, very dark place”.

Teenage Satanist and far-right extremist sentenced for terrorism offences
 
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Wojcik

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What does this have to do with Shamima Begum and her story? It's not related to the thread. If you want proper discourse and open dialogue on it, create your own thread, instead of high jacking Dong's thread, which is unrelated to his post.
 

TwoWhalesInAPool

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What does this have to do with Shamima Begum and her story? It's not related to the thread. If you want proper discourse and open dialogue on it, create your own thread, instead of high jacking Dong's thread, which is unrelated to his post.

Who made you the Forum Police? Telling me what I can and cannot post.

Shove off.

Your song lyrics at the start of the post had far less to do with the thread than the comparison 'terrorist' article that I have posted.
 

Wojcik

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Who's telling you to do anything? I'm making a suggestion that you create your own thread, with your own sources, related to what you want to post. There's a significant difference between telling someone to do something, and then suggesting someone do something using examples on how they can achieve this effectively.

And i posted lyrics in a comedic sense, due to the context of this thread initially being light hearted. Then i followed up with a more serious discussion in related to LadyOnARoofTop's comment. It's all about context.
 
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TwoWhalesInAPool

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Who's telling you to do anything? I'm making a suggestion that you create your own thread, with your own sources, related to what you want to post. There's a significant difference between telling someone to do something, and then suggesting to do something using examples on how they can achieve this effectively.

And i posted a lyrics in a comedic sense, due to the context of this thread being light hearted. Then i followed up with a more serious discussion in related to LadyOnARoofTop's comment. It's all about context.

Let me make myself very clear. Stop telling me what to do/suggest etc.

My post is relevant. You may not like my post, that is your opinion. But, until a forum restriction is put into place on 'replying to a post', or you are handed Forum Police Badge giving you responsibility on who/what/etc., can be replied to/remarks made, stop telling me what I can or cannot post and stop making suggestions on what I can or cannot reply to.

You opinion/suggestion is irrelevant.

(My post is relevant)
 

TwoWhalesInAPool

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And i posted lyrics in a comedic sense, due to the context of this thread initially being light hearted. Then i followed up with a more serious discussion in related to LadyOnARoofTop's comment. It's all about context.

This thread is light hearted? Um, which part of the 'thread' before your post was light hearted?

Yes, context indeed. Uh-huh.
 

jenarator202

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I am afraid I am on the fence with regard to Shemima Begum, whilst I do tend agree with the decision regarding her citizenship, I have an element of doubt also. Probably stemmed from being a parent and having bought up two girls. But I wonder how much of her decision to leave the UK was governed by puberty, the faddy nature of a teenager at that age, they do tend to have idols, my eldest had her room festooned with posters. And we all know that as you are grow older you change your mind, your interests, your desires, your tastes etc surely the same could be applied to her. But then we will never know the full facts really.
 

megs233

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On the same level. Any thoughts on the lack of outrage following the sentence for 18 yr old Harry Vaughan, from south-west London?
[Nov 2020]

''In a pre-sentence report, Vaughan indicated there were no “significant political”, “racist or homophobic” views expressed during his upbringing. The teenager’s father, who was in court, is a clerk in the House of Lords and his mother is a teacher.

The judge took account of the defendant’s young age and his diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder. He also acknowledged a letter from Vaughan’s parents, who are committed to helping him “change for the better”.''


(quote)
''A teenage Satanist and far-right extremist has been given a suspended sentence after posting bomb-making manuals on neo-Nazi forums and downloading indecent images of children.

View attachment 2817
photo: Harry Vaughan via Guardian article.

Harry Vaughan, 18, a grammar school pupil who achieved four A* grades in his A-levels, was sentenced at the Old Bailey on Monday after admitting 14 terrorism offences and two child abuse image offences. He was given two years’ detention suspended for two years.

Vaughan was arrested by police in June last year following an investigation into an online forum called Fascist Forge.

Police found that the teenager, of south-west London, had been concealing his identity behind numerous aliases and boasting about school shootings, sharing explosives manuals and neo-Nazi propaganda online, expressing homophobic views and downloading indecent images of underage boys.

Digital forensic specialists retrieved 4,200 images and 302 files from Vaughan’s devices including an extreme rightwing terrorist book and documents relating to Satanism, neo-Nazism and antisemitism.

Police also discovered graphics encouraging acts of terrorism in the name of the proscribed organisation Sonnenkrieg Division and footage of the 2019 Christchurch mosque massacre.

Several homemade posters were found in the bedroom of the teenager, who attended Tiffin grammar school in Kingston-upon-Thames in Surrey.

One featured the Norwegian far-right killer Anders Breivik and the words “every girl loves a mass murderer” and “it’s okay to be a Nazi”.

Richard Smith, the head of the Met’s counter-terrorism command, said the case showed that any young person can be susceptible to radicalisation.

He said: “Harry Vaughan is an intelligent young man … yet, online, he was an enthusiastic participant of rightwing terrorist forums.

“His case illustrates it is possible for any young person to be susceptible to radicalisation, so today I really want to appeal to everyone to be as vigilant as possible for signs that a young loved one may be in trouble.”

In a pre-sentence report, Vaughan indicated there were no “significant political”, “racist or homophobic” views expressed during his upbringing. The teenager’s father, who was in court, is a clerk in the House of Lords and his mother is a teacher.

The judge took account of the defendant’s young age and his diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorder. He also acknowledged a letter from Vaughan’s parents, who are committed to helping him “change for the better”.

His extremist views, which he now claims to have renounced, were said to be “driven by internet use”.

Prosecutor Dan Pawson-Pounds said: “The material demonstrated unequivocally that Vaughan had an entrenched extreme rightwing and racist mindset, as well as an interest in explosives, firearms and violence more generally.”

Vaughan’s barrister, Naeem Mian QC, told the Old Bailey that a “toxic cocktail of factors” had led the defendant to “disappear down a rabbit hole of the internet” into a “very, very dark place”.

Teenage Satanist and far-right extremist sentenced for terrorism offences


The two case are not the same , one left country and she know what she was doing , she very clever young girl so the reports was saying when she disappeared. along 2 other they knew what they was getting into.
 

Wojcik

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I am afraid I am on the fence with regard to Shemima Begum, whilst I do tend agree with the decision regarding her citizenship, I have an element of doubt also. Probably stemmed from being a parent and having bought up two girls. But I wonder how much of her decision to leave the UK was governed by puberty, the faddy nature of a teenager at that age, they do tend to have idols, my eldest had her room festooned with posters. And we all know that as you are grow older you change your mind, your interests, your desires, your tastes etc surely the same could be applied to her. But then we will never know the full facts really.

I get the point that governments are being granted to decide whether or not someone keeps their citizenship or not, and that is a concern for a lot of people. It's the same argument against the death penalty. Do you want government to decide the fate of someone else's life? The concern is that corrupt governments could use it to silence political opposition. Look at the Julian Assange injustice as an example.
On the other side i think it does highlight a growing concern among people. The concern that young people are becoming more radicalised in a way where they are taught that their country, culture and history are evil. And a shared responsibility must be placed on our institutions, especially in education.
 

jenarator202

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The two case are not the same , one left country and she know what she was doing , she very clever young girl so the reports was saying when she disappeared. along 2 other they knew what they was getting into.
Yes, I agree that she was a very clever young girl, and I suppose when you think about it, there are some young people out there who know what they are going to do for with their life, for instance I know a young lad, who at the age of around 14 wanted to be a airline pilot, in which he succeeded. In that context, I agree that she knew what she was doing but my point is do peoples beliefs and wants remain the same as they grow older? I know I changed as I grew older. things I felt passionately about, no longer matter, my priorities changed. And because of this, I do wonder if the same thing happened to her. Perhaps I was different type of teenager as I did tend to look at things through rose coloured glasses and sadly was an avid reader of Mills and Boone and Barbara Cartland books back then! :D
 

Wojcik

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Yes, I agree that she was a very clever young girl, and I suppose when you think about it, there are some young people out there who know what they are going to do for with their life, for instance I know a young lad, who at the age of around 14 wanted to be a airline pilot, in which he succeeded. In that context, I agree that she knew what she was doing but my point is do peoples beliefs and wants remain the same as they grow older? I know I changed as I grew older. things I felt passionately about, no longer matter, my priorities changed. And because of this, I do wonder if the same thing happened to her. Perhaps I was different type of teenager as I did tend to look at things through rose coloured glasses and sadly was an avid reader of Mills and Boone and Barbara Cartland books back then! :D

I had an experience as a teenager at college. I was big into the gym there, and it was ideal because it was on the campus and i could workout during lunch times and after college. I met this guy who was Muslim, and we started training together. Seemed like a great guy.
However, after a time, he started to change. He would constantly start talking about God and trying to prove it with images and research online. I wasn't buying it and his attitude completely changed from a decent guy, to a very in your face, aggressive nature.
And i remember him suddenly disappearing. He no longer showed up to workout.
I wonder now if he was training to become a fighter of ISIS. But at the time i didn't think anything of it. Thank God i had some sense not to buy into that kind of narrative. So i can see how easy it is for young people to be groomed, shaped and moulded into believing in that ideology. These are God fearing people, and they believe non-believers are sinners.
 
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