Welfare reforms

[Not_Fred_Honest]

No

Kev said:

To conclude, in my opinion, a class action will be brought against the state sometime in the future, as and when more information is released/revealed. After which 10s of £ billions and upwards will be awarded in compensation to the disabled and chronically sick and including to the families of the deceased.

My reply was:

We have a choice: cut back on welfare payments or increase taxation. Either way, we can't afford to improve public services unless we get more people into work.

You can dream all you want about a "class action". If you win that money will need to found from some where. So where do they cut? Schools, hospital's or welfare to pay for it?

And if you think they will just increase tax, bear in mind skilled workers are now working less hours. People cant see the point in earning extra money only to lose it to tax. The days of working 60 hours per week are long gone, most only work 35 hours per week or less.

Have you block Kev already ?

If Kev wins his "class action" the money will have to be taken from other public services.

I've watched the paralympics., I've seen people in wheel chairs and with ms working in offices too. Both claimed PIP.
Today people are working from home more. Your not going to tell me some of them cant answer the phone or work a computer?

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

Question. AI Chatbot. How much do unpaid carers save the British government in total?

Answer. AI Chatbot. The 2021 Census found 5.8 million unpaid carers in the UK contributed an estimated £184.3 billion annually to the UK economy, equivalent to a second NHS.

Q. AI Chatbot. How much financial help can I expect to receive from the state if I am an unpaid carer, caring for a chronically sick and disabled relative, for at least 35 hours a week?

A. AI Chatbot. The weekly rate for Carer's Allowance, the main state benefit for unpaid carers, is £81.90 a week, £2.34 an hour.

Q. AI Chatbot. How do I qualify for Carers Allowance for working at least 35 hours a week caring for a chronically sick and disabled relative?

A. AI Chatbot. In England, the person you are looking after must be in receipt of the daily living component of PIP.

Q. AI Chatbot. Will Carers Allowance count as income when I claim Universal Credit because I can't work full-time because I am looking after my chronically sick and disabled relative for at least 35 hours a week?

A. AI Chatbot. Yes, Universal Credit is classed as income and taxable and can reduce your Universal Credit. It can also reduce other means tested benefit such as Pension Credit, Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance, Income-related Employment and Support Allowance, Income Support, Housing Benefit, and Council Tax support.

Q. Al Chatbot. Do I still need to look for work to qualify for Universal Credit if I receive Carers Allowance, working for at least 35 hours a week?

A. AI Chatbot. Yes, you still might have to attend work-focused interviews even if you are in receipt of Carers Allowance but not expected to look for work.

Q. AI Chatbot. I have just been told my chronically sick and disabled relative's daily living component of PIP has been cut because she did not score four points in one of the daily living elements after Liz Kendall's "reforms", will I still qualify for Carers Allowance?

A. AI Chatbot. No. The criteria for claiming Carers Allowance is that the person you are claiming for is in receipt of the daily living component of PIP, or someone of pensionable age claiming Attendance Allowance, or Disability Living Allowance which is being phased out and replaced by PIP (in Scotland, Adult Disability Payment).

Q. AI Chatbot. What am I going to do now I am at my wits end, I still need to look after my chronically sick and disabled relative because they are still incapable of work and will not be expected to look for work by the DWP, although they will also be expected to attend "employment support" with a "duty to engage" if they receive UC.

A. AI Chatbot. Grab the last lifebelt now, HMS blue Labour has kicked the hatch wide open for even more Draconian "reform" when the Tories, or god forbid, Reform take power in 2029.

Q. AI Chatbot. But the Sun and Daily Express told me all this is simple and any old Tom Dick or Harry can just stroll into the DWP and claim PIP and Carers Allowance and other stuff and immediately get handed wads of free cash?

A. AI Chatbot. Malfunction Malfunction! Please Evacuate Immediately! Malfunction Malfunction! Liz Kendall Liz Kendall! Wobbly Face Wobbly Face! Evacuate Evacuate!

Kev tell me one thing.......... If you cant clean your own bum or look after your own money, who gets your welfare payment?
If you have a career giver, they do.

You said the allowance was £81 per week.

ESA at £90.50 per week
PIP at £73.90 per week.
Career allowance £81 per week.
( People on UC being paid careers allowance will receive a top up to the same level as current UC rates )

That's £245 per week/£981 per month without rent at the lower rate. Give the rents in Brighton, I'd say rent was another £900 per month. That's close to the benefit cap of £25,323 per year......but the benefit cap don't apply to people who received careers allowance.

This is a real mind **** to try and work out

If you was in work, you'd have to gross 40k per year to take home that.

I'm sure people working in care homes don't get anything close to that.

 

[Kev45]

I will not engage with Fred's whataboutery and where every single time he is "educated" by other users he will simply google move the goalposts rather than just admit he is wrong.

For someone who claims he was a "welfare advisor" for the CAB, dealing with extremely vulnerable people, he knows next to nothing about the welfare system or disability.

We can now add 'economist' to Fred's long list of illustrious achievements, right?

Because Fred believes £1 billion saved a year, until 2030, is "balancing the books".

To put that in context, interest paid on government debt in 2023, was £111.6 billion.

Yep, you read that right, £111.6 billion.

Fred is also finding it extremely difficult to understand, that there are only around 800,000 jobs advertised in UK and currently around 1.6 million jobseekers seeking work.

Adding another 1 million makes 2.6 million.

2.6 is a lot bigger number than 1.6, right?

In a shrinking economy where full-time jobs are shrinking at their fastest rate for four years.

Now ask yourself this, is this measure a genuine attempt by the ghoulish Kendall to "rebalance the books", and get people into imaginary jobs, or will it just heap even more untold misery on the most vulnerable in our society?

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

Kev.... I can always tell when you lost an argument and you know it, you make personal attacks

 

[Kev45]

No one on this site believes you (the grown-ups), Fred, because they already know you ALWAYS instigate person attacks and immediately whine when you get it back.

You fake CAB "welfare advisor".

Imagine someone like you anywhere near vulnerable people?

They also know you immediately play the "victim" card every single time you are exposed as an incredibly ignorant man.

Have a great day.

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

Another attack from Kev

Kev babe.... if you have no new information and nothing to add..... you always post abuse

 

[RiverSpirit]

I recieve PIP.
My friend receives PIP.

We are each other's carers. If we accept carers allowance, it just comes off any other benefits.

Yes, disabled people work.
We did.
We were worse off so where is the motivation?

We are both now unable to "work" due to medical conditions although we both do voluntary work.

I'm lucky in the fact I am pretty self sufficent for power and food otherwise I wouldn't manage on just over 1k a month.

PIP isn't a cop out. It's a necessity.

 

[Kev45]

Imagine the scenario, that if you are under 22 and chronically sick or disabled, a 'Labour' government has now decided you are not entitled to the health top-up on Universal Credit. They have unsicked the chronically sick and undisabled the disabled just like that, hey presto, and all it took is a signature from the ghoulish Kendall with a Bic ballpoint pen.

Because this government believes, despite not producing any evidence to the contrary, that zillions of young people are "self diagnosing" mental health issues, etc and getting lots of "free" cash. Again involving the so-called Tory "flagship" UC system and rather than PIP and DLA where fraud is measured as zero.

Then Starmer immediately contradicts himself, as is his habit, claiming now that this is a "moral" mission, probably because his father "was a toolmaker", repeat X 745 times.

One minute it is reform to save money (austerity) and the next minute a "moral"mission to save young people from themselves.

Which is it, without legislation, jobs and training placements, two year waiting lists on the NHS (therapy), it can't be both can it.

Confused mixed messaging bourgeoisie, out of touch, middle class shittery at it's finest.

 

[Kev45]

Oh, and by the way, recovering the £15+ billion lost to PPE fraud would have more than paid for these "reforms".

You can also bet your house on it, not a single Tory MP will go to prison for it.

Pigs in a trough.

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

I recieve PIP.
My friend receives PIP.

We are each other's carers. If we accept carers allowance, it just comes off any other benefits.

Yes, disabled people work.
We did.
We were worse off so where is the motivation?

We are both now unable to "work" due to medical conditions although we both do voluntary work.

I'm lucky in the fact I am pretty self sufficent for power and food otherwise I wouldn't manage on just over 1k a month.

PIP isn't a cop out. It's a necessity.

I'm not too sure what to say about that.

UC rate is just under £400 for single people, and they get by. I'm surprised you cant on just over a grand a month.
I've been sat here thinking about this for a while, even I don't spend more than £600 on bills, transport and food.

 

[Kev45]

But you do spend 100k a year buying imaginary surf/body boards and kayaks and other googled images and then boasting about it in chat.

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

Imagine the scenario, that if you are under 22 and chronically sick or disabled, a 'Labour' government has now decided you are not entitled to the health top-up on Universal Credit. They have unsicked the chronically sick and undisabled the disabled just like that, hey presto, and all it took is a signature from the ghoulish Kendall with a Bic ballpoint pen.

Because this government believes, despite not producing any evidence to the contrary, that zillions of young people are "self diagnosing" mental health issues, etc and getting lots of "free" cash. Again involving the so-called Tory "flagship" UC system and rather than PIP and DLA where fraud is measured as zero.

Then Starmer immediately contradicts himself, as is his habit, claiming now that this is a "moral" mission, probably because his father "was a toolmaker", repeat X 745 times.

One minute it is reform to save money (austerity) and the next minute a "moral"mission to save young people from themselves.

Which is it, without legislation, jobs and training placements, two year waiting lists on the NHS (therapy), it can't be both can it.

Confused mixed messaging bourgeoisie, out of touch, middle class shittery at it's finest.

Starmer mite have a point with the under 22's.

If there was a way of giving up work at 21, I would have taken it. I worked a 44 hour week for £27.50 YTS money back then and unemployment benefit in the UK was £23.05 at the time.

But back then if you was under 18 you didn't get anything.

Individuals under 18 were generally not eligible for unemployment benefits, and the system was structured to prioritize support for those aged 18 and over.

It looks like they have change it since then.

• Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA):
  • You cannot get JSA if you are under 18, with some exceptions for those aged 16 or 17 in exceptional circumstances.
    
    
  • If you are 16 or 17, you may be able to get JSA if you are no longer on friendly terms with your family and are living in poverty.
    
    

The simple truth is they never really paid welfare to the under 22's

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

But you do spend 100k a year buying imaginary surf/body boards and kayaks and other googled images and then boasting about it in chat.

I don't spend that much, but make the odd big purchase. Over the sales I've spend about 2k on new gear for the summer. Its hard to turn down a nice shinily paddle when its reduced from £300 to £90

My boat and car insurant are about a grand a year......far less than my council tax bill. I've not spent more than £500 last year fixing them either.

 

[Kev45]

I think I'll end it here because unfortunately it just isn't sinking in, in my defence I have tried my hardest to try and help Fred understand this complex issue.

Fred just doesn't understand that chronically sick and disabled young people, and older people, might not be able to do any work at all, of any description. Even after the cuts, they will still be unable to work, in any job of any description. We don't know the actual breakdown of those affected because the Starmer regime did not carry out a "risk assessment" or provide any evidence.

There are no jobs. No training places and once the reforms hit, and no financial assistance. No help on the NHS and without the daily living component, no one to help with all these issues raised on this thread.

I thank my lucky stars that when I have asked for help and advice from the experts at the CAB, Fred wasn't sat in the chair opposite me.

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

After two heart attacks and doctors bugging me to have a ICD before I was 55....your right Kev

My gut feeling comes down to this:

If you were in full time work on a good wage, you cant wait to get back to work after a serious illness.
If your on a low income the reverse. Why go to work full time when you can pick up a little less and stay at home?

The welfare system need reform. You shouldn't be worse off by working. There no easy fix for this issue.
I'd love to say a little bit of training and people can go back to work, even with a disability. But people on the current welfare system will fight tooth and nail on any changes or reforms.

i don't envy Keir Starmer trying to sort this out. But one thing is clear, if they don't tackle this now.....the money will run out at some point. And that mite be sooner rather than later if we're forced into another war.

Now I've found some loose change down the back of the sofa and I'm off to buy the house next door to Kev

​

 

[RiverSpirit]

I'm not too sure what to say about that.

UC rate is just under £400 for single people, and they get by. I'm surprised you cant on just over a grand a month.
I've been sat here thinking about this for a while, even I don't spend more than £600 on bills, transport and food.

Rent?
Transport? (I live in a rural area)
Clothes?


You're just looking to argue.

Btw, £600? In Hove???

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

I take the ebike instead of the car for shopping. It goes about 17 miles per hour for 12 miles. I've not used the car in two weeks. The cars only a Citroën C1 and costs £20 to fill 1/2 a tank.

When I do go shopping, its just for me. The most I've ever spent in Tescos is £30 in a week.

My heating is cover by my pellet burner. The pallet cost me £500 last year and still have a few bags left.

My board band is about £24 a month, you can get it cheaper on "social tariff" for £12.

My phone is about £8 per month with vodafone.

My standing order for electric is £120 per month.

So lets say £120 on shopping, £200 for bills, that's around £320 month. Lets call it £400 encase I've forgotten something.

And even if I didn't live in Shoreham and was out in the middle of nowhere, I wouldn't spend much more.

But you cant get by on grand each month?

​

 

[RiverSpirit]

I take the ebike instead of the car for shopping. It goes about 17 miles per hour for 12 miles. I've not used the car in two weeks. The cars only a Citroën C1 and costs £20 to fill 1/2 a tank.

When I do go shopping, its just for me. The most I've ever spent in Tescos is £30 in a week.

My heating is cover by my pellet burner. The pallet cost me £500 last year and still have a few bags left.

My board band is about £24 a month, you can get it cheaper on "social tariff" for £12.

My phone is about £8 per month with vodafone.

My standing order for electric is £120 per month.

So lets say £120 on shopping, £200 for bills, that's around £320 month. Lets call it £400 encase I've forgotten something.

And even if I didn't live in Shoreham and was out in the middle of nowhere, I wouldn't spend much more.

But you cant get by on grand each month?

​

Oh, Shoreham now is it?

Tbh, I really cba to engage with you.

You have a heart attack, then it's a bypass, then it's stents.

You live in Hove, then Shoreham.

£30 a week on food and toiletries? Maybe in the 80s.


I didn't say anywhere that I struggle. I don't.
I said I would if I wasn't pretty much self sufficent.

 

[Not_Fred_Honest]

Heart attacks are just stents these days and I have a dnacpr. Its a nice red form that really brightens up the room.

I got an offer on the house in Hove about 7 years ago that was too good to say no too. ( Keb will know when I last moved). I down sized and move out to Shoreham beach.

I do use Savers for toiletries. Its not much, I'd say under £10 per month.
I've been sat here trying to remember what my water bill is... I think its under £500 a year?
Council tax I just pay when it comes in. Even with the single person discount, it was still £1100

Food shopping is what you make it.

Cooking bacon is £1 for 1/2kg
Frozen chicken is about £3 for 1/2kg.
I do buy Tesco White Toastie Bread Thick Sliced 800g for 75p
Butters is £4 for 400g (Lurpack)
I will buy Jus-Rol Ready Rolled Puff Pastry Sheet 320g for £2. You can do so much with that.
Another £4 on fruit and veg.
Milk another £4

I do like icelands 3 packs of meat for £11. I can get a bag of mince, beef and chicken for that

I'm a big fan of my microwave pressure cooker and air fry. I'll even brown mince off in measuring jug using the microwave. It takes about 5 mins from frozen and so much easer to pour the fat away. And I do like to cook when I have time.

Decafe coffee beans come in a 20kg sack once a year for my bean to cup machine. Its under £250 for the year.

And this month I did splash out on 6 tins of slimfast. Its on a deal right now in superdrug. 2 tins for £11. It works out at £5.50 per tin, its normally about £8. I've put on a bit too much winter weight and need to to lose it.

But I still cant understand how you spend a grand a month on food and bills? Are you just buying ready meals?

 

[Kev45]

No concern, sympathy or any empathy whatsoever, shown towards potentially vulnerable people on this thread and despite claiming to have worked as a "welfare advisor" at the CAB advising extremely vulnerable people in receipt of PIP and other disability benefits.

Isn't even aware of basics, such as PIP and UC, are two entirely different benefits. Or even the basics that PIP is not means tested and so anyone who is disabled can apply for it, etc.

But, what sort of ghoul would volunteer for a job helping people he despises, constantly reminding us when he frequently posts negative threads aggressively expressing that hatred.


Imagine publicly claiming that you have never spent more than £30 a week in Tesco...

Obviously doesn't shop in Tesco much, either, if he believes he can get 7 days of shopping and toiletries etc for under £30.

Or claiming ebikes travel at 17 mph when they are in fact capped at 15.5 mph. After going past the 15.5 mph cut off, the power is immediately switched off, and peddling is like wading through treacle on a flat stretch...



It's the seemingly innocuous small detail Fred doesn't know, and unfortunately it always exposes Fred as a teller of tall tales.