Kev45
Voted UKChat most handsome 'man' 2023-2024.
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Moriarty
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WTF..
First I knew about it lol
Rain, yeah we disagree, but an Incel, really lmao
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Raining_Roses
Guest
Men's Rights advocate doesn't quite insult one in the same way,
I'll let you in to a secret. Deep inside this pit of a human (no, not an alien...or am I? Well, kind of
We are all made from stardust, flower!), I neither disagree or agree with very much. And I have found that even if you stand your ground on something you wholeheartedly believe in, fuckwit cowpats will arrive to mess up your boots and get sh!t in your socks.
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Raining_Roses
Guest
High maintenance? The last time I needed a maintenance man was before I bought a drill. I don't have any maintenance issues I can't usually fix myself.
I don't know- the answer to your question would lie with the person with the opportunity to date a single parent. What do you think the pro's and con's of dating a single parent is?
Personally, any man who's a single parent in my dating age range would more likely have older teenage or adult children, so it wouldn't bother me, but if they had little kids, I wouldn't date them. I don't want to be a surrogate anything or have the desire to care for and spend time with a younger child.
Moriarty
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Men's Rights advocate doesn't quite insult one in the same way,
I'll let you in to a secret. Deep inside this pit of a human (no, not an alien...or am I? Well, kind of
Isn't that the point of sharing an opinion, to see if your right?
Or at least somewhere in the ball park.
Theres a lot of people who know a hell of a lot more about being them than I know.
Many folks know much more about anything than I do.
I only know about what I have learned and being me.
If people don't share, how can I learn that I am wrong?
I'd rather take shitty socks and learning something than clean ones and certainty of my opinion because I dont like the smell.
Moriarty
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Always tickles me that I'm viewed as someone who hates women.
I love women, they keep me on my toes.
My ex and I were together for, feck 5 years before I actually moved in with her.
It wasnt a rapid choice and I had reservations.
Yet we had a lot of fun, just wasn't for me.
Lived to long on my own before, selfish with my time.
Wasnt her fault, I was always there when she wanted me, but I found it cloying.
I will however stand by anything I have said about women in past posts.
They are very different than men.
Men can be just as bad as women, of that theres no doubt.
That is not a judgement on who is right or wrong, just what people do to live/survive.
It's all good to me, people will do whatever they want to get a partner who makes them happy.
Both men and women have desires, if not needs.
The only caviat to that statement is actual violence, unless consensual, is a problem in predominantly hetrosexual and lesbian relationships, those are always bad.
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Raining_Roses
Guest
I don't think you hate women at all. At times, I've found you to be very sympathetic towards women and their causes (as such), but I don't think you understand them as well as you might believe you do. In a textbook way, perhaps, but from an experiential view (i.e.: being able to see aspects of life and experience from their worldview as opposed to your experience with women), I don't think you do. You tend to minimise the female experience and apply a male view on it, and like many men (so not singling you out), you don't see your own creeping misogynism.
If you don't stand for anything, you fall for everything
Yep, we are, but at the same time, we're not and that's the big mistake- the general perception of what it means to be 'equal'. We spent eons being treated as sub-human and when we are finally at a stage where we are treated as humans and attempt to keep it that way, it's turned back on us.
I see a lot of men repeating variations to the phrase "You wanted equality, now you've got it" whenever our rights to equality are challenged (rights we have to have to protect us from men). And we get vilified with statements that we're as bad as men, while the very few violent/abusive women in society are demonised and held up by the media as examples. Do you know, behind a large number of women in the prison system, there is an associated criminal male? Yet that connection is not made in male prisoners (in that they are connected to a criminal female).
Yep- we are different, but at the same time, both human. It's just a shame that sex that was treated as sub-human for eons is not the one in 2023 still behaving primitively. (Sorry, gotta Lol at line
)None of what I've written here ties in with my original post and taking a winding country turn from the original topic, but hey ho!
I get ya- yes, we all do what we do to survive, but going back to the original post, as parents we shouldn't be concentrating on ourselves, but our kids. But given that your post didn't really answer the one of mine you screenshotted, I have no idea what I'm answering really.
Only one thing here- where did you get your info regarding violence in heterosexual and lesbian relationships? I'd check that if I were you. I downloaded the spreadsheet with the crime stats from the gov website around 2 years ago, looking for those figures and if I recall correctly the most prevalent relationship type for domestic violence is heterosexual, but the next is male-male relationships. Female-female relationships tend to be lower in violence, yet the violence tends to be severe when reported. These were reported incidents to police, so there's the chance that more DV in lesbian relationships is reported through other avenues (such as victim helplines), but it's not reported figures.
Moriarty
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The only way I can "Understand" women is either through observation or them telling me how they feel (lots of experience with that), reading up on the subject (especially when written by a women), or saying I am one so my lived experience is what I understand a women to be.
How can you discount my lived experience if I identify as a women?
Just a curious thought experiment there.
I am baffled how you think women were/are viewed as "Sub Human".If you don't stand for anything, you fall for everything
Yep, we are, but at the same time, we're not and that's the big mistake- the general perception of what it means to be 'equal'. We spent eons being treated as sub-human and when we are finally at a stage where we are treated as humans and attempt to keep it that way, it's turned back on us.
I see a lot of men repeating variations to the phrase "You wanted equality, now you've got it" whenever our rights to equality are challenged (rights we have to have to protect us from men). And we get vilified with statements that we're as bad as men, while the very few violent/abusive women in society are demonised and held up by the media as examples. Do you know, behind a large number of women in the prison system, there is an associated criminal male? Yet that connection is not made in male prisoners (in that they are connected to a criminal female).
Ask anyone who has lived through an ideologically driven genocide, they see thier enemies as sub human, the relationship between men and women has always been that of mutual survival.
The small period in history when western education was a male domain didn't last that long.
Women were treated differently I agree, the world was moving very quickly toward enlightenment and then industrialisation, women still bore the responsibility of raising children while men were seen as providers.
Bear in mind, most "Jobs" back then were dirty, dangerous and had a high fatality rate.
I do like that you say women in prison are usually there because of a man, have you ever reversed that thought and viewed the ratio of single parenthood to male children which become criminals in low income neighbourhoods.
Theres various factors at work in that thought, however, one has to take them into consideration.
A sons desire to care for his mother may have implications in the almost double violent crime rate amongst single parent males.
Again with the Sub Human.Yep- we are different, but at the same time, both human. It's just a shame that sex that was treated as sub-human for eons is not the one in 2023 still behaving primitively. (Sorry, gotta Lol at line
None of what I've written here ties in with my original post and taking a winding country turn from the original topic, but hey ho!
Ask a Russian or a Jew in World War 2 what being treated as a sub human actually means.
Jewish deaths, 6 million, Russian deaths 20 Million.
They were viewed as sub human by the Germans and those that supported them.
Damn theres that Godwins law again, but with reason.
Look at Cambodia, or Rwanda, where over 3.5 million people were killed.
They were classified as sub human by those that backed it, including the USA which turned a blind eye to Pol Pot's massacres.
I dont seem to recall the English killing off thier only means to reproduce and thus keep the farm going to support the whole family, did I miss a genocide?
Right there, you answer your own question in your original post.
"Each time, a woman let a man do this to their child- and yes, I say ‘Let’. Each of those mothers had a choice and yet they chose to put their own needs and a dick over the basic safety and security of a child, so let’s clear away the excuses- the ‘she’s a victim of domestic violence’ and the excuses of coercive control."
You said:-
"Let’s get rid of the sympathy specs that the Judges see a vagina through. Get rid of them, because there are NO EXCUSES. They murdered their children through the toleration of such monsters in their home- their child’s supposed place of safety and security. They handed them over to their murderers willingly, a gift to celebrate their shared sickness, and should thus receive the same sentence."
So you blamed both parents, they were both responsible.
Then you jumped to this :-
"Step-fathers are over 100 times more likely to beat their partner’s child to death than the natural father is."
Thats the "Cinderella Effect" it has been proved wrong, I can link a peer reviewed article which disproves it.
The ratio of mother based child murder/suicide is higher than fathers killing children, from memory I think, I could be wrong.
However, that still does not explain how a women can come to the conclusion that her only way out is to kill her children then herself.
That is a level of control I agree, which is both rare and abnormal.
It's very easy to get lost in the statistics, the problem remains that "Some" women get into relationships with "Some" men which will always end in tragedy.
I know that relationship wise Female to Female violence is second to Male to Female violence in hospital admissions, someone sent me a link to it, but had a new PC hard drive, might take me a while.
Good discusion though, took me a while to read and answer.
Gotta do this for the giggles.
Your a smart girl
Gonna wait for the "OMG Such a mysogynist"
Seriously, good chat love to have to think and damn you making me work for it
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Raining_Roses
Guest
I had a good chuckle at this. There is no thought experiment. You can identify as whatever the feck you like, it doesn’t mean you have a valid experience as what you identify as. Reality and what goes on in your head can be two very different things.
I don’t ‘think’ women were/are viewed as ‘sub human’- literature, law, media and life in general demonstrates that. I’m sure I don’t need to give you a history lesson, Moriarty nor a paragraph on why we’ve had women’s right’s movements for hundreds of years. At one point, a man could be prosecuted for killing his dog, but not his wife. We were- and still are- deemed the property of men, so how is that not ‘sub-human’? We are still regarded as inferior and as needing a man in our lives or expected to act in a way to please men. We are still seen as no more than sexualised, performing monkeys and you question why I ‘think’ we were/are viewed as ‘sub-human’. Even the scientific texts that so many are reliant on as fact are influenced by this ingrained view of women being vastly different from men.
You say “Ask anyone who has lived through an ideologically driven genocide, they see thier enemies as sub human”, but then go on to say “the relationship between men and women has always been that of mutual survival.” So, what are men and women? Enemies or dependent on each other for mutual survival? You don’t make that clear.
What now? ‘Small period’ that ‘didn’t last that long’? What planet do you live on, Moriarty? Girls have only been able to get an education in the UK since the Victorian era and even then, it was only a certain class of girls. Cambridge university didn’t admit women until 1948 and again, even then women were prohibited from studying certain subjects.
In some countries (e.g.: Pakistan, Afghanistan), girls still are not allowed an education, as women being treated as sub-human is not isolated to the UK or western world, so your example is a moot point.
Women have bore the responsibility of children AND supplementing the man’s income for hundreds of years, but the male will always use this argument, basing his ‘facts’ on literature and texts written by men, instead of doing his own research. Women have worked for centuries in dirty and dangerous jobs for less than a man. And after working from 5am till around 6pm or later, with the young ones working alongside her, she’d go home to tend to the house- cook and clean for her man, who’s worked the same hours, but doesn’t have the societal pressure of looking after the family after finishing his day. On her one off a week, she’d wash and scrub, tending to the children, preparing the weeks bread and other food that could be stored, while he’s out spending what he earns in the pub (or betting at cock and dog fights).
What about the girls that were kept in the factories and mills, while their male counterparts become of age for an education? Women and girls have always worked. We didn’t suddenly emerge out of the confines of the home in the 1960’s in the midst of the sexual revolution. The only women that stayed at home were those of the higher classes and those whose men earned enough to keep them- working class women have always worked, whether in factories/industry, domestic services, nursing, dressmaking, farming or menial jobs in the home, such as the women straw platters in the 1700’s. If it wasn’t for the woman’s wage to boost the man’s, most of these families wouldn’t have survived.
Women were only allowed to do certain jobs- rules set by the men in charge. The jobs we could do were not our choice and now we do have a choice, women DO undertake risky, dirty jobs, but even back then the work we were allowed to do still came with risks and fatalities. Women worked in factories with toxins; they worked in mills and with machinery, so while they weren’t running into mines and quarries, they were still working in jobs with risks to their health. Mind you, for most women, home was the most dangerous place to be (and still is), seeing as it was seen as normal to beat your wife for any infringement on a man’s masculinity or status in the home.
You say to consider the ratio of single parenthood (which by the rest of it, I assume you mean ‘a single mother household’) to male children which become criminals in low-income neighbourhoods- essentially linking three factors: criminality, single-mothers and poverty. But you ignore that if the household has 2 incomes, it is less likely to experience poverty to a degree that motivates criminality. So, where is the male in this scenario? Where is his responsibility? You haven’t asked yourself why the man isn’t contributing to his child to prevent poverty. You create onus of the poverty of the single mother for creating a male criminal, yet fail to consider that the father has a role to play as a role model and a provider. His absence is another factor. In fact, it’s a big factor. However, another factor you will see frequently in the backgrounds of male criminality is an absent father, most likely with some form of criminal history or reports of domestic violence themselves
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Raining_Roses
Guest
You read too much on serial killers! Not every male criminal is Ed Kemper! What do you base this on? So, a son from a single mother, who has a stable attachment style to that parent is likely to become a violent criminal? Either you haven’t phrased this well or it’s a load of laughable tosh!
See above. I’m not repeating myself.
I’m pretty disappointed that you would drag up horrors like this to try to elevate your typically misogynistic view and I’m not going to compare the cruelty of MAN INSTIGATED war to the every day fight of women. I don’t need to do that to make my point, but I will say that you throwing figures around on the despicable acts of men does not make your point any more relevant. Women are murdered every day by men, simply for being women- for being mothers and partners; for walking down the street, for being alone in an isolated place, for being a ‘b****’, for wanting an education, for wanting to drive a car, for protesting, for saying ‘No’.
Oh, and let’s not forget the witch trials, where women were tortured and put to death in the most horrendous ways for being simply being women.
Now we face being erased in a different way. The genocide against women became gradual and silent, turning from brute force to disguised compliance, but the brute force is coming back. More so now than ever.
I’ll tackle the twice you’ve quoted me. Firstly, I do believe both are responsible- in fact, all parties have to hold some responsibility, whether direct or indirect- father, mother and step-father. Mother, for putting her own needs first and ignoring the needs and well-being of her child; step-father, for the obvious as the perpetrator of the crime, and father for not exercising their parental rights (if they have any).
Secondly, infanticide by a mother comes with a number of psychological, biological and societal causes. The only one I can find for the step-fathers- and fathers for that matter- is jealousy, a need for control or some threat to their twisted, bullying ego. Funny how given that mothers are more likely to murder their child (especially in the first 24 hrs of birth) or neglect their child resulting in death, you see an awful lot of children in the news, murdered by their step-father. And what about the number that don’t get murdered, but instead endure years of bullying and abuse? Not every blended family is like Daddy’s Home and the more common scenario is that there is contention between former and new partners, which the child ultimately suffers from by way of emotional and/or physical abuse.
And lastly, ”Some" women get into relationships with "Some" men which will always end in tragedy.” – actually, we form patterns of attachment behaviour, so those ‘some women’ and ‘some men’ are always going to be the same ones, until they break that pattern.
And so, I go back to my original point- it’s a woman’s problem and we need to be teaching women to say ‘No’ and breaking those patterns. As women, we can’t solve male issues- that’s up to your lot. You need to be breaking the cycle of male perpetrated domestic violence and us, as women, need to be teaching women that until you do start being fathers and teaching your boys to stop beating, raping and killing us, we will stop being compliant to your needs. A new partner needs to know that they don’t take over the homes we’ve made on our own; they don’t raise our kids and set their rules- they have no say in our lives. They are there to be complimentary, not needed.
The stats I am looking at right now give the figures for England & Wales, March 2019-March 2021 and the number of female victims of homicide from a female perpetrator, who was a partner or ex-partner, is 3, compared to 6 for a male victim of a male perpetrator, who was a partner or ex-partner. 207 women were murdered by a male partner or ex-partner, compared to 29 murders by women of a male partner or ex-partner.
Furthermore, you fail to consider propensity to report domestic abuse. Women are more likely to report it and men, in general, are less likely to report incidents of domestic violence, whether gay or straight. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
I ain’t finished yet, you raving incel!Good discusion though, took me a while to read and answer.
Gotta do this for the giggles.
Your a smart girl
Gonna wait for the "OMG Such a mysogynist"
Seriously, good chat love to have to think and damn you making me work for it
Altair
Master Assassin
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'Ain't finished yet'??? You are a woman...A woman is NEVER finished... until everyone is dead or so fucked up they don't know which way to turn or what to do next.
Then you call Moriarty an 'Incel' into the bargain... with a 'Wink'. !
Great.
You would never get this far with me.
Then you call Moriarty an 'Incel' into the bargain... with a 'Wink'. !
Great.
You would never get this far with me.
Moriarty
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To be honest Altair I could just use that quote right there and the debate is over.
However, its fun to hear other peoples arguments.
Raining, I'll answer the post later lol.
I don't have a couple of hours to go through it right now
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Raining_Roses
Guest
Tell her to take her teeth out and you'll have more timeRaining, I'll answer the post later lol.
I don't have a couple of hours to go through it right now
Moriarty
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Nah I got the newer model, yeah it costs more as a one off payment, but its worth it long term.Tell her to take her teeth out and you'll have more time
I do love the internet, it means one has choice of newer models for anything.
Especially for something like a new fridge, a replacement for some old cold thing that snaps your hand off when you try to open it.
Which wheezes loudly when in normal operating conditions and needs constant help because the seals arent tight any more.
Newer fridges are so much more attractive, aren't full of toxicity which spews endlessly into the enviroment around them and function better to.
Usually they are also cheaper per month than the old ones to run when you add up all the "Care" you need to put into an older applience.