Moral intuitions as abstract, anthropocentric absolutes.

[RebsEnd]

Labeling an abstract action (“Nuking the world…”) as “wrong” is both anthropocentric and kind of akin to Plato’s position that abstractions exist as universals independent of their mental counterparts.

1. Is it “wrong” for the sun to go supernova and incinerate us? Surely, accountability is secondary to the importance of repairing the universe. Why make a distinction between a human causing suffering and an inanimate object causing suffering other than to insinuate that the human must necessarily be subjected to some kind of arbitrarily quantified punishment?

There is no mathematical theorem which demonstrates that nuking the world necessitates fifty years in prison instead of twenty, but we can do simple math to determine whether preventing the event will also prevent an increase in negative value -- and that’s what matters, regardless of our intuitions or the ultimate fate of the perpetrator(s).

2. There is no such thing as “nuking the world” aside from as a conceptual abstraction useful for model-building. A specific nuclear event, however, can exist: It has a context and environmental variables that have been assigned values. Without these variables, we are shunning practical reality in favor of abstract absolutism -- a primary cause of bloviation and much ado about nothing.

 

[Moriarty]

All moral considerations are abstractions of anthropocentric theories which are subjective to the belief structures of the governing ideologies from which they are based.

We can no more say that the Sun is inanimate, as we can a nuclear warhead on a missile, or a car on the road.

The sun causes the death of hundreds of thousands of people per year, due to drought, famine and the eventual pestilance which it produces.
It does so with consistancy, it is a force of nature beyond our control.

Yet we do little to counteract the effects of this external force because we are selectivly moralistic on not an anthropocentric view, but a selective or subjective one based on prevelent ideology or governance.

Is the same moral consideration helping Africa satisfy its need for energy to store antibiotics in fridges given the same relevence as accepting a green agenda in countries which already have the ability to create energy?

If much of Africa was allowed to build coal power plants, yes they would short term increase carbon emisions above the wood burning they do now in thier own homes, but it would bring them out of poverty, due to extended life expectancy, better medical treatment and other secondary effect's like better transport infrastructure and education away from an agrarian economy.

So your right and wrong at the same time.

As you must be, because we are simply humans who know what we know, know what we dont know, but also dont know what we dont know.

We do tend to think we are much cleverer than we actually are.

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

Is the thread title an example of 'a word salad'? Or am I showing that i'm uneducated...

 

[Moriarty]

Is the thread title an example of 'a word salad'? Or am I showing that i'm uneducated...

Geopolitical philosophy and/or politics tends to be long words with little meaning.
It allows people to look smart while doing feck all.

Just like the orginal post, it's espouses intellect without substance.

Anyone can appear to be clever given enough time and Google searches.

As you know I'm a dick, yet it took me about 10 minutes to spout the BS I did.


The problem I have is, am I wrong?

 

[cidal]

Geopolitical philosophy and/or politics tends to be long words with little meaning.
It allows people to look smart while doing feck all.

Just like the orginal post, it's espouses intellect without substance.

Anyone can appear to be clever given enough time and Google searches.

As you know I'm a dick, yet it took me about 10 minutes to spout the BS I did.


The problem I have is, am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. You are not a dick. You are a 'wannabe-dick'. Dicks do not go around stating they are dicks, they are usually too broken, either mentally or emotionally, to know they are dicks.

'Wanna-be-dicks' is an online (and sadly, RL too) persona used by many (mostly younger men) to show they are geniuses beyond any need of other people's approval, but deep down they seek connections/understanding that are missing in their lives. Their lack of self-awareness is astounding. I did a quick google search to come up with all of this.

"Just like the orginal post, it's espouses intellect without substance.".

So, the OP espouses intellect without substance, but wannabe-dick replied. What does that espouse? You have over 1,000 posts, are you an intellect-wannabe and dick-wannabe in all all 'em? If so, that in itself, is impressive.

"It allows people to look smart while doing feck all."

Only for those who use a genuine OP as a means to ridicule someone else, while furthering their own pointless needs.

'Moriarty'. Yeah, ok. If Moriarty had a way less smart, way more needy cousin - wait, think his name was 'Wallace'. You are a tool, Wallace. Not a dick.

 

[Moriarty]

I am simply who and what I am.
Life is simple, people make it complex by believing what they deem to be truth.

Reality is what it is, how one perceives it is why there are differences of opinion.
That is science.
That is Religion.
It is also moral judgement.

I am in actuality a dick, because I am bipoler in my beliefs, I can argue for or against either science or religion.
The ability to hold both sides of an intellectual or faith based argument as valid means I know nor believe anything.
Hence.. Dick lol

 

[cidal]

Yeah, ok. I have nothing...it is like your genius is so.. well.. genius! Well done, dude.

Imagine,. Hence, wanna-be.

 

[NickUK]

For something to be 'wrong' there had to be a choice...to nuke or not to nuke...catching the flu does not make the flu 'wrong'
And yes most 'wrong' things are anthropocentric from the point of view it harms our species at its fundamental level...now if you used the word 'evil' thats an entirely different thing.
The sun going supernova (highly unlikely, though it will turn into a red giant at some point though) is not really 'wrong' its just gonna happen there are no alternatives or choices (unless you are religious of course)
Just what I think, could be bollox, felt like saying it

 

[Moriarty]

Yeah, ok. I have nothing...it is like your genius is so.. well.. genius! Well done, dude.

Imagine,. Hence, wanna-be.

It's funny using that song for a forum post about absolutes.
In all 4 verses there are only 2 lines changed.

Repetitions in thinking create moral absolutes.
Repetitions of emotional reaction create moral absolutes.
Yet thought and emotion can, very often, be at odds.

If enough people repeat something is true, is it really?

So as the OP said "abstractions exist as universals independent of their mental counterparts"
Must be a truthful statement,
Unless the abstactions exist through what is seen to be pure evidence based logic.
I.E. Mental processing.

Yet all scientific theory is based on imagination which is illogical in any known nature apart from humans apparently.
It also changes over time, for example the human body used to be understood as 4 humours.
That changed when technology advanced to actually see how things were made using magifying lenses.

Which means it must be anthropocentric.

We can only believe what we think to be true.
Perception, belief, ideology and religion colour those beliefs.

Reality does not change, our understanding of it does.


P.S.
I do love the line "'Wanna-be-dicks' is an online (and sadly, RL too) persona used by many (mostly younger men) to show they are geniuses beyond any need of other people's approval, but deep down they seek connections/understanding that are missing in their lives. Their lack of self-awareness is astounding. I did a quick google search to come up with all of this."

Seriously, I am a dick, ask any of my family or friends (I only have 2 left), I cant hold a normal conversation without going off at an angry philosophical or political tangent about how fecked up the world is.

I do however, love playing on forums because they make me think.

 

[cidal]

It's funny using that song for a forum post about absolutes.
In all 4 verses there are only 2 lines changed.

Repetitions in thinking create moral absolutes.
Repetitions of emotional reaction create moral absolutes.
Yet thought and emotion can, very often, be at odds.

If enough people repeat something is true, is it really?

So as the OP said "abstractions exist as universals independent of their mental counterparts"
Must be a truthful statement,
Unless the abstactions exist through what is seen to be pure evidence based logic.
I.E. Mental processing.

Yet all scientific theory is based on imagination which is illogical in any known nature apart from humans apparently.
It also changes over time, for example the human body used to be understood as 4 humours.
That changed when technology advanced to actually see how things were made using magifying lenses.

Which means it must be anthropocentric.

We can only believe what we think to be true.
Perception, belief, ideology and religion colour those beliefs.

Reality does not change, our understanding of it does.


P.S.
I do love the line "'Wanna-be-dicks' is an online (and sadly, RL too) persona used by many (mostly younger men) to show they are geniuses beyond any need of other people's approval, but deep down they seek connections/understanding that are missing in their lives. Their lack of self-awareness is astounding. I did a quick google search to come up with all of this."

Seriously, I am a dick, ask any of my family or friends (I only have 2 left), I cant hold a normal conversation without going off at an angry philosophical or political tangent about how fecked up the world is.

I do however, love playing on forums because they make me think.

You analysed the tune? Like I said, always a dick-wannabe. Never the dick. Maybe you will do better this time around? Unlikely, though. Another trait wannabe-dicks have is to try hard to make a point, yet make none. Hey, based on that insight, we might both be wannabe-dicks! Shocking and sad.

I was fairly drunk, shared a tune because I like sharing tunes. Simple. Looks like you took the OP post quite seriously and continue to explain to anyone reading...that YOU get it. It looks like the OP had enough 'substance' to get you and I go on, and on. He is long gone now. Smart guy.

And holy ****, I thought I had no life, but dude...just enjoy a tune, or not...but not everything has to be about proving your self-worth to yourself on the net. You're ok.

Hey look...it' a singing frog! People say some guy actually shoved his hand up this frogs butt to make him sing. I believe the frog sang and loved a pig. Not sure about the banjo though....do frogs have opposable thumbs?

 

[Moriarty]

You analysed the tune? Like I said, always a dick-wannabe. Never the dick. Maybe you will do better this time around? Unlikely, though. Another trait wannabe-dicks have is to try hard to make a point, yet make none. Hey, based on that insight, we might both be wannabe-dicks! Shocking and sad.

I was fairly drunk, shared a tune because I like sharing tunes. Simple. Looks like you took the OP post quite seriously and continue to explain to anyone reading...that YOU get it. It looks like the OP had enough 'substance' to get you and I go on, and on. He is long gone now. Smart guy.

And holy ****, I thought I had no life, but dude...just enjoy a tune, or not...but not everything has to be about proving your self-worth to yourself on the net. You're ok.

Hey look...it' a singing frog! People say some guy actually shoved his hand up this frogs butt to make him sing. I believe the frog sang and loved a pig. Not sure about the banjo though....do frogs have opposable thumbs?

Much prefer :-
This one

Sometimes people dont understand a topic in its entirety because they think they are smart due to some preconceived notion of superiority.
Sometimes they think they are smart yet they are but semi-educated in the topic and use pure intellect to think about it in a few minutes, others sometimes they have no fecking clue but wanna fake it.

The beauty of being a dick is you can be all those things if no one questions you.