Gay cake saga...

[Saphire]

A complaint by a Northern Ireland gay rights activist that he had been discriminated against when the Christian owners of a bakery refused to make him a cake iced with the slogan “Support Gay Marriage” has been ruled inadmissible by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR).
The ECHR said Gareth Lee failed to “exhaust domestic remedies” in the long-running so-called “gay cake” case.
In 2018, the UK Supreme Court ruled Mr Lee was not discriminated against when Ashers bakery in Belfast refused to make him the cake.

The high-profile controversy first flared when Mr Lee, a member of the LGBT advocacy group QueerSpace, ordered a £36.50 cake from Ashers in May 2014 featuring Sesame Street puppets Bert and Ernie for a private function marking the International Day Against Homophobia.

His order was accepted and he paid in full, but two days later the Christian owners of the company called to say it could not proceed due to the message requested.

Mr Lee then referred the case to the ECHR, claiming the Supreme Court had failed to give appropriate weight to him under the European Convention of Human Rights.

 

[Saphire]

Why didn't they just go to Greggs and save all this bother?

 

[Altair]

Why didn't they just go to Greggs and save all this bother?

And you are a Typical Greggs girl aren't you. Zero class. Hmm.

 

[Saphire]

And you are a Typical Greggs girl aren't you. Zero class. Hmm.

I see you are still following me round the forum like a little dog looking for scraps of attention....

If you have nothing of interest to say....sod off and stop being a creep..

 

[Altair]

I see you are still following me round the forum like a little dog looking for scraps of attention....

If you have nothing of interest to say....sod off and stop being a creep..

I get all the attention I need. I have no need for scraps... Unlike you dear.

 

[Saphire]

For people who may wonder why Altair persists in seeking out my posts/threads, just to make inane comments...

He is obviously still smarting because I refused to engage in a private conversation with him weeks ago.
For all the females who are harassed online in this way, let me assure you, little 'men' like this are ten a penny, they try to bite but they are toothless and quite pathetic really.
Never let a stalking creep spoil your forum experience, either ignore...which I did for a while, or speak out and show the little creeps up for what they really are.

Now back to gay cakes....

 

[Altair]

For people who may wonder why Altair persists in seeking out my posts/threads, just to make inane comments...

He is obviously still smarting because I refused to engage in a private conversation with him weeks ago.
For all the females who are harassed online in this way, let me assure you, little 'men' like this are ten a penny, they try to bite but they are toothless and quite pathetic really.
Never let a stalking creep spoil your forum experience, either ignore...which I did for a while, or speak out and show the little creeps up for what they really are.

Now back to gay cakes....

I think folks here know exactly what's going on. No need for you to try and educate them with your insane wisdom.

Nice try though.

Better luck next time...I'll be watching.!

 

[Altair]

Just adding the Cherry on the cake of Sapphire. You will forever be known as 'Gregs Dregs'.

Another Win for Reason and all Good Men.

How is that husband of yours?...(Asking for a friend.)

 

[Altair]

How to Silence a wannabee hero Woman on Chat. Job Done.

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

For people who may wonder why Altair persists in seeking out my posts/threads, just to make inane comments...

He is obviously still smarting because I refused to engage in a private conversation with him weeks ago.
For all the females who are harassed online in this way, let me assure you, little 'men' like this are ten a penny, they try to bite but they are toothless and quite pathetic really.
Never let a stalking creep spoil your forum experience, either ignore...which I did for a while, or speak out and show the little creeps up for what they really are.

Now back to gay cakes....

I usually ignore unsolicited PM's from the little men. When it happens, for some reason the notion they're 'doing an Altair' now comes into my head But so far none of them have exhibited any stalkerish tendencies, lucky me, huh? As to cakegate, obviously i'm all for gay rights. The problems occur when they impinge on the rights of other people. To save all that bother, I don't know why they didn't just bake a cake themselves, it's not the hardest thing in the world is it? But Greggs? are you mad!

 

[CrazyCatLady]

Really, @Altair ? Stalking women on an internet forum. Where's your dignity, man???

The cake subject...mmm, no strong feelings on it either way and can see that both sides were a bit pathetic. It's amazing what people will run to a lawyer about!
The bakers- think they were petty having objections to doing the message on the cake. They didn't have to believe in or endorse what it said, and could have asked the customer to refrain from publicly mentioning them on social media pics in order to keep their reputation with their church and community. They claim to not have any issues with homosexuality, but believe that marriage should be between a man and woman <<< I don't buy this and it sounds very much like disguised compliance to avoid backlash from the LGBT+ community.
The customers- they could have gone elsewhere! Simple as that. Why go through all that? Simply to out them as homophobes? Well, they proved their point in the media, but not the courts.

Ultimately, a business has the right to choose it's customers and I expect that there are many companies that practice discrimination regularly- it's just that most people won't complain or don't see it.

 

[funandflirty]

it does feel the bakery was chosen to make a point.

I have a side business of cake making and I have said no to a few requests (particularly the graphic baby shower cakes!)

 

[Saphire]

it does feel the bakery was chosen to make a point.

I have a side business of cake making and I have said no to a few requests (particularly the graphic baby shower cakes!)

Good for you.
No one should be put into a position that they have to bake a cake, made a dress, design a card etc etc, for a cause they don't believe in.

I don't think they should have to give reasons either...freedom of choice works both ways.

 

[Saphire]

This gay cake saga had undertones of the gay double bed saga, where a Christian couple refused to allow a gay couple to stay in their bed and breakfast accommodation, in the same room, sharing a double bed.
Unfortunately, they lost their case...had to pay compensation, and eventually sold their B&B, which had also been their home for many years.

This elderly Christian couple said at the time,they believed that "permitting unmarried people - whether heterosexual or homosexual - to share a double bed involved them in "promoting a sin".

Old fashioned, outdated, and unpopular values definitely, but hardly discriminating against homosexuals.

Maybe gay cake eater hoped for the same outcome....happy that common sense, and equal rights for the poor downtrodden majority, have this time prevailed.

 

[AGirlHasNoName]

I was always under the impression private businesses could turn down customers/refuse to serve you if they so please, we're always harping on about how we should respect everyone's religious beliefs, and although I don't agree with the non acceptance of the LGBT community, if that's your strongly held religious views then you shouldn't really be chastised for refusing to do something that goes against what you believe (even though i'm agnostic). Equality for all religions is a must.

That said, I hate religion.

 

[funandflirty]

This gay cake saga had undertones of the gay double bed saga, where a Christian couple refused to allow a gay couple to stay in their bed and breakfast accommodation, in the same room, sharing a double bed.
Unfortunately, they lost their case...had to pay compensation, and eventually sold their B&B, which had also been their home for many years.

This elderly Christian couple said at the time,they believed that "permitting unmarried people - whether heterosexual or homosexual - to share a double bed involved them in "promoting a sin".

Old fashioned, outdated, and unpopular values definitely, but hardly discriminating against homosexuals.

Maybe gay cake eater hoped for the same outcome....happy that common sense, and equal rights for the poor downtrodden majority, have this time prevailed.

I think the accommodation saga, the hotelier fell foul by stating only heterosexual married couples can book on their website, which is clearly against the equality act.

I think people should be able to say no to accepting business but not then go on with their own views on why they are saying no.

I have no doubt the cake ordering, they picked that baker to make a point to gain momentum in their cause and I don’t think that is fair either.

 

[Saphire]

I think the accommodation saga, the hotelier fell foul by stating only heterosexual married couples can book on their website, which is clearly against the equality act.

I think people should be able to say no to accepting business but not then go on with their own views on why they are saying no.

I have no doubt the cake ordering, they picked that baker to make a point to gain momentum in their cause and I don’t think that is fair either.

Ahhh, if their website stated that (I can't remember all the details tbh) then obviously they were discriminating.

I do remember I felt really sorry for them. An elderly couple, lost their home and their business, and at the time it seemed, just as in this more recent case, the couple had been earmarked by the gay couple... (probably because of their website)
If memory serves, the gay couple had a woman make the booking, presumably they expected a heterosexual married couple to turn up.

 

[Saphire]

I was always under the impression private businesses could turn down customers/refuse to serve you if they so please, we're always harping on about how we should respect everyone's religious beliefs, and although I don't agree with the non acceptance of the LGBT community, if that's your strongly held religious views then you shouldn't really be chastised for refusing to do something that goes against what you believe (even though i'm agnostic). Equality for all religions is a must.

That said, I hate religion.

Obviously not if they are discriminating against certain minorities.

In the 'olden days' in the UK, pubs, shops etc, could apparently display notices that banned all 'blacks and Irish' from entering the premises.

We want people to have the right to have their own beliefs upheld by law, but lines have to be drawn somewhere.

 

[casiquaire]

Youre in the wrong line of business if your so called morals come before earning money when it comes to something like a b&b or cake making. If i was a cake maker, if you wanted me to bake you a cake with a massive arse on it being spanked with a rainbow dildo, thats the cake youre getting with a smile and a thank you. And as for the b&b, do what the hell you want in the room providing you arent breaking the law and you arent damaging anything that you arent prepared to pay for. Irrespective of whether you personally think homosexuality is wrong, you need to park that notion in this day and age, you are just opening yourself up figuratively for court cases by not getting with how the world is now, not how you think it should be. I dont feel sorry for either business, its a dog eat dog world.

 

[AGirlHasNoName]

Obviously not if they are discriminating against certain minorities.

In the 'olden days' in the UK, pubs, shops etc, could apparently display notices that banned all 'blacks and Irish' from entering the premises.

We want people to have the right to have their own beliefs upheld by law, but lines have to be drawn somewhere.

Of course but refusal to bake someone a cake is surely personal choice? Like, as Casiquare said they’re losing business which is hugely stupid of them especially in todays world because word of mouth may have meant a LOT more business for them, so in that respect they shot themselves in the foot.

I feel differently about the b&b thing because as you rightly say, banning certain groups of people from an establishment is blatant discrimination, if you’re running yourself as a b&b that can be booked on multiple different places online you have no right really to say who can and can’t stay. So yes in that respect you’re completely correct.

But someone refusing to bake a cake? Stupid on their part yes, but they have the right to say no don’t they? Like they could say no to a pro abortion cake or a large penis for a hen do.

I think the cake thing and the b&b thing are 2 different things to be honest you can’t compare them unless they’re banned from entering the cake shop to buy stuff just for being LGBT etc