Covid-19. Are we going about it all wrong?

[Paolo]

Without intending to take anyone's side and with very limited knowledge about the source of this virus, I will add that if there is no known cure - at present - then there is little point hospitalising or giving any medical care for those diagnosed with it. Therefore, nature has to take precedence, meaning those most at risk should be allowed as much comfort as possible as they more than likely succumb to the ravages of this pandemic.

 

[Paperloveheart]

I wear rose coloured glasses and I hoping to wake up and this was just a bad dream

 

[Bad_Influence]

Be as condescending and deflective as you like, you still didn't (can't) answer to what blew your thread apart:

In the big scheme of things Nature does always win. I did not even suggest we should get rid of healthcare services, only that for the benefit of humanity long-term, it would be far better to allow Covid-19 run it's course.
I'm aware you have yet to hold a mature conversation, but please explain how your comment 'blew the thread apart'?

 

[Bad_Influence]

Seems to me that if you wipe out all the old people you also wipe out their experience, knowledge and understanding of the human condition.
I reckon that any society that would sanction leaving their parents and grandparents to an early and unnecessary death would not be one I would want to live in.
Perhaps this is the answer you wanted?

That is certainly more like the response I was expecting but I was not suggesting we wipe out ALL old folk, hence not removing what is to some, a valuable source of knowledge and experience. This virus would, if left to it's own devices, remove only the weakest, as nature does in many ways around the world.

 

[HeroesAreVillains]

In the big scheme of things Nature does always win. I did not even suggest we should get rid of healthcare services, only that for the benefit of humanity long-term, it would be far better to allow Covid-19 run it's course.
I'm aware you have yet to hold a mature conversation, but please explain how your comment 'blew the thread apart'?

Humanity is a part of nature, you moron.

You suggested that we stop trying to help people and just let them all suffer and die from the virus because "nature always wins", and that doing so would somehow benefit humanity long-term(?!). Your mouth-breather logic is arguing against having healthcare services and the NHS in the first place, as the primary reason that healthcare services and the NHS exists is for the sole intended purpose of alleviating suffering of the sick and injured, and giving people the opportunity to live when they otherwise wouldn't. The improvement of healthcare is the core fundamental thing that benefits humanity, and the quality of lives that people lead, in the long-term; not letting everyone rot just because "nature".

For you, healthcare services ceasing to intervene, and all hospitals closing down so that the sick and injured are left to their own devices to get worse and die, is somehow beneficial to humanity long-term.

You are a complete idiot.

And a very hypocritical, hateful, and extremely two-faced one too seeing as how you try to pretend to make arguments with humanity's apparent long-term well-being in mind in one thread, while posting things completely to the contrary (i.e. your real attitude) like this in another:

It's already too late. But it's 34 million years since the last ELE asteroid so we are due another.... bring it on and let Mother Nature try again without the scourge that is humanity.

 

[Bad_Influence]

Humanity is a part of nature, you moron.

You suggested that we stop trying to help people and just let them all suffer and die from the virus because "nature always wins", and that doing so would somehow benefit humanity long-term(?!). Your mouth-breather logic is arguing against having healthcare services and the NHS in the first place, as the primary reason that healthcare services and the NHS exists is for the sole intended purpose of alleviating suffering of the sick and injured, and giving people the opportunity to live when they otherwise wouldn't. The improvement of healthcare is the core fundamental thing that benefits humanity, and the quality of lives that people lead, in the long-term; not letting everyone rot just because "nature".

For you, healthcare services ceasing to intervene, and all hospitals closing down so that the sick and injured are left to their own devices to get worse and die, is somehow beneficial to humanity long-term.

You are a complete idiot.

And a very hypocritical, hateful, and extremely two-faced one too seeing as how you try to pretend to make arguments with humanity's apparent long-term well-being in mind in one thread, while posting things completely to the contrary (i.e. your real attitude) like this in another:

Oh dear LG.
I never suggested hospitals closed, only that they didn't put at risk other seriously ill people by allowing the virus into the one place where people go with acute illnesses. Many of the deaths so far have been people already in hospital being treated for other diseases. Most people who contract Covid-19 just get better, but by allowing this virus into hospital we, as a society are putting sick patients at even more risk.

As for the long term benefits of humanity... yes the global population does need to be culled.. we have neither the resources, or the will apparently, to cope with a global population of 7.7 billion people. Nature WILL always win, and the arrogance of humans to think we can keep increasing the population, and asset-stripping this world without consequences is staggering, but after reading the myopia in your comments it is hardly surprising.

 

[Altair]

Oh dear LG.
I never suggested hospitals closed, only that they didn't put at risk other seriously ill people by allowing the virus into the one place where people go with acute illnesses. Many of the deaths so far have been people already in hospital being treated for other diseases. Most people who contract Covid-19 just get better, but by allowing this virus into hospital we, as a society are putting sick patients at even more risk.

As for the long term benefits of humanity... yes the global population does need to be culled.. we have neither the resources, or the will apparently, to cope with a global population of 7.7 billion people. Nature WILL always win, and the arrogance of humans to think we can keep increasing the population, and asset-stripping this world without consequences is staggering, but after reading the myopia in your comments it is hardly surprising.

HeroesAreVillains....

Is Obviously LG.

About Your Brief Bad..

I'm surprised a person who professes to work in the 'Care' sector? Actually find's the time to post stuff on a 'Chat Site.'?

Shouldn't you be busy with other things? Surely.!

 

[Bad_Influence]

HeroesAreVillains....

Is Obviously LG.

About Your Brief Bad..

I'm surprised a person who professes to work in the 'Care' sector? Actually find's the time to post stuff on a 'Chat Site.'?

Shouldn't you be busy with other things? Surely.!

You know I'm not part of the care team Fin. The accounts side doesn't change much.

 

[Altair]

You know I'm not part of the care team Fin. The accounts side doesn't change much.

Fair enough.

Fin?..

Ages since I have been acknowledged..!

Blast.!

 

[Wojcik]

It can't just be me but I think from a species point of view we are, globally speaking, dealing with this pandemic in the wrong way. For long term benefits we should have taken a short term hit.
We should have prevented anyone showing symptoms from going to hospital, and let the virus run its course. Yes we may have had to face up to a 20% loss of the world population, but let's all be honest, the globe is massively over-populated and nature will always find a way to balance things.
I know nobody wants to lose family and friends, but the vast majority of those who would be taken by Covid-19 are, to put it bluntly, on their way out anyhow.
The gains of this approach are numerous... Less financial strain on pensions, more food means less starving people in the world, more available housing, far less strain on the NHS and associated businesses, no disruption to the education system, more available jobs for those out of work, to name just a few.
As I have said, nature ALWAYS wins, and if we are to be arrogant enough as a species to believe we can carry on as we have done, then this virus will be drop in the ocean compared to what comes next.
This is only my opinion and I accept that many or most will call me uncaring / thoughtless / sociopathic or worse, but one thing is unquestionable... I AM a realist.

It's easy to take this topic out of context and call you every name under the sun, as some might lol. However, you really need to read it to understand what you're talking about when it concerns the very essence of human nature. We're animals after all, and it's been quite apparent because of these selfish acts of panic buying, that our survival instincts kick in and it becomes every man/woman for themselves. We even have NHS staff in tears because there were very little food on the shelves, and these are the people who i would argue, need it most to continue their vital and valuable work.
I don't think you're uncaring/thoughtless or a sociopath, but you are considering the many alternatives that these situations will present you with.
I think it's fine to question humanity, our way of life, our attitudes towards the things that we would normally take for granted on a daily basis.
It takes a pandemic crisis to take us out of our comfort zones, and actually think about what we have that is most important to us. It also smacks us with a reality check that we're only here temporarily.

 

[Bad_Influence]

It's easy to take this topic out of context and call you every name under the sun, as some might lol. However, you really need to read it to understand what you're talking about when it concerns the very essence of human nature. We're animals after all, and it's been quite apparent because of these selfish acts of panic buying, that our survival instincts kick in and it becomes every man/woman for themselves. We even have NHS staff in tears because there were very little food on the shelves, and these are the people who i would argue, need it most to continue their vital and valuable work.
I don't think you're uncaring/thoughtless or a sociopath, but you are considering the many alternatives that these situations will present you with.
I think it's fine to question humanity, our way of life, our attitudes towards the things that we would normally take for granted on a daily basis.
It takes a pandemic crisis to take us out of our comfort zones, and actually think about what we have that is most important to us. It also smacks us with a reality check that we're only here temporarily.

You are assuming some can read and comprehend subject matter. lol. You are right regarding us being animals, whereas the vast majority have taken this situation very well, there are some complete fuckwits out there who have used / are using this horrendous pandemic to make a profit or to con people.

Having watched the bit about the hospitals in Italy on Sky earlier, this is only the beginning for the UK. It is going to get brutal, and the NHS staff should be the first to be looked after by the Gov't and to be fair I think they've got most things right so far.

To be honest Woj, I AM a sociopath. I generally don't like 'people'. I'm cynical, I tend to see the bad in people before giving them the chance to prove me wrong and very few manage it.

When I posted this I certainly didn't expect anything in particular. I thought some would agree, others would not, but I wasn't expecting one numpty to read every other word and try to turn it into personal agenda. He only succeeded in proving my point about humanity. lol

 

[Wojcik]

You are assuming some can read and comprehend subject matter. lol. You are right regarding us being animals, whereas the vast majority have taken this situation very well, there are some complete fuckwits out there who have used / are using this horrendous pandemic to make a profit or to con people.

Having watched the bit about the hospitals in Italy on Sky earlier, this is only the beginning for the UK. It is going to get brutal, and the NHS staff should be the first to be looked after by the Gov't and to be fair I think they've got most things right so far.

To be honest Woj, I AM a sociopath. I generally don't like 'people'. I'm cynical, I tend to see the bad in people before giving them the chance to prove me wrong and very few manage it.

When I posted this I certainly didn't expect anything in particular. I thought some would agree, others would not, but I wasn't expecting one numpty to read every other word and try to turn it into personal agenda. He only succeeded in proving my point about humanity. lol

You're an honest sociopath though lol.

 

[Bad_Influence]

You're an honest sociopath though lol.

Lol. As I said at the end of the original post, it's only my opinion. I can only offer that, I don't claim to speak for others.

 

[LadyOnArooftop]

I see there are still planes arriving from Madrid, how are these people self-isolating on the plane? When they disembark (that the right word?) from the plane they're not being tested or put straight into isolation, this is madness.

 

[Dong]

I see there are still planes arriving from Madrid, how are these people self-isolating on the plane? When they disembark (that the right word?) from the plane they're not being tested or put straight into isolation, this is madness.

And passengers are alighting to walk, unchallenged or tested or questioned through the airport...and off the airport.
They are no doubt glad to be home but I am just as sure that we are not as glad to receive them.
We must be mad!

 

[Rainbow]

Are we really taking of 'early death'? In the advanced world life expectancy has increased massively, but when death occurs at 80, 90 or more is is premature? Or has the age of death been artificially delayed? How many older people would actually welcome death because they are exhausted, have lost their loved ones, are in severe pain etc.... I work in elderly care and I can tell you many of them(not all by any means), but any welcome the idea of death and are very ready to let go. It seems to me there is a time to be born, a time to live and indeed a time to die, and that the further we push the latter away the less acceptable and more frightening it becomes, not necessarily to those facing the end. But to those who fear losing the loved ones who have been with them for so many years. We have however lost sight of the wishes of the people it affects most, who in some cases would welcome nothing more than a quick release from a life that nolonger offers quality or joy.

 

[Dong]

Are we really taking of 'early death'? In the advanced world life expectancy has increased massively, but when death occurs at 80, 90 or more is is premature? Or has the age of death been artificially delayed? How many older people would actually welcome death because they are exhausted, have lost their loved ones, are in severe pain etc.... I work in elderly care and I can tell you many of them(not all by any means), but any welcome the idea of death and are very ready to let go. It seems to me there is a time to be born, a time to live and indeed a time to die, and that the further we push the latter away the less acceptable and more frightening it becomes, not necessarily to those facing the end. But to those who fear losing the loved ones who have been with them for so many years. We have however lost sight of the wishes of the people it affects most, who in some cases would welcome nothing more than a quick release from a life that nolonger offers quality or joy.

That may all be true of 'limited people.' but those of us with health enough to go on and the will to go on and the mind to appreciate life will go on until we are stopped.

 

[Bad_Influence]

But we MIGHT well be stopped :

 

[TheThinker]

Very Interesting thread with very differing points of view, i actually see a lot of sense in bad's original post, i can also see why Heroes wants a dig, but if we are all being honest,, none of us here are experts in epidemiology or pandemics, we offer our OWN thoughts and for me that is no bad thing, at least we are the ones who are actually thinking about it and what it can mean for the future, in my own humble opinion, this is only the start of what is to come in the future,, we need every country in the world to wake up and smell the coffee, we all need to be working together to try and i repeat try to stop practices that can obviously cause these things, for instance we in the UK know that if you put cooked food and raw food in the same place in a fridge it can make you seriously ill or kill you, BUT that is not an issue in some countries,, i hope you get the drift?
i dont know if any of you have seen the market place in Wuhan that is apparently the cause of this pandemic or the markets in india where the stall holders are washing carrots in the road sewers, to name but 2.
I do hope this thing passes us by and that the vast majority of us survive, we know that people have and will die in their hoards but what we as a planet MUST do is learn from it and hopefully put measures in place to at least prevent it happening again.

How very diplomatic of me in this answer ;-)
So,,, Wash Your Hands,,, Keep Your Distance,,, Stay Home,,,, BUT most of all,,, PEACE TO YOU ALL ;-)

Thinky Boy.

 

[Wojcik]

But we MIGHT well be stopped :

Technically, we already have been stopped. We've been told to adhere to social distancing rule, and that we're only allowed out of our prison cells once a day for exercise, unless you're a key worker of course lol.