Is the Trinity Doctrine Biblical?

[Slayer]

O!! I understand, you mean a Trinity God. So three in one. I also don't believe in the Trinity doctrine. But well in a God and His Son. If Jesus was just a human like us, what changed of life he can give us? There was anything that God has created have so much love for humans than Jesus. So if you don't believe in Jesus don't talk about Him. Just only about your god.

Are you sure you're a Christian though?
Because the Trinity is the foundation of Christianity. Even though the word 'Trinity' was never once mentioned in the bible.

If you don't believe that the son, father and holy spirit (the trinity) are co-equal to one another and that God is just 1/3rd, a fraction of the equation, well, you're not a Christian by that definition.

 

[Pipiripi]

You sound like David Koresh’s clone. Leave the cult and stop preaching fella.

I cannot stop preaching, do you see everyone!! The devil doesn't want us to preach. If anyone say to you stop preaching is because you are God child. I pray for you now. Your true face picture is ugly. Put a human mask on your face. You are just a poor demon.

 

[Pipiripi]

Are you sure you're a Christian though?
Because the Trinity is the foundation of Christianity. Even though the word 'Trinity' was never once mentioned in the bible.

If you don't believe that the son, father and holy spirit (the trinity) are co-equal to one another and that God is just 1/3rd, a fraction of the equation, well, you're not a Christian by that definition.

 

[Pipiripi]

Are you sure you're a Christian though?
Because the Trinity is the foundation of Christianity. Even though the word 'Trinity' was never once mentioned in the bible.

If you don't believe that the son, father and holy spirit (the trinity) are co-equal to one another and that God is just 1/3rd, a fraction of the equation, well, you're not a Christian by that definition.

You are right I am not a Christian by that definition.
I am a Christian according the Words of God. If the Holy Spirit is person and not just a person, a (God), why he has never speak with God or Jesus or both? Or they speak with Him? Show me in the Bible where a can read a word saying to God or Jesus or both. But yet he spoke with humans. Read all the greetings and closing of the apostles. In how many names do they their greetings? So if you want to know more let me know.

 

[Bad_Influence]

I cannot stop preaching, do you see everyone!! The devil doesn't want us to preach. If anyone say to you stop preaching is because you are God child. I pray for you now. Your true face picture is ugly. Put a human mask on your face. You are just a poor demon.

I’ll tell you what fella, I’ll pray for you, to my god Pennywise. Let’s see who has the most successful result. I gonna take a guess that both results will be the same.

 

[Pipiripi]

I’ll tell you what fella, I’ll pray for you, to my god Pennywise. Let’s see who has the most successful result. I gonna take a guess that both results will be the same.

Never my friend, you have god, I have THE ALMIGHTY GOD JEHOVAH AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH. I WONDER IF YOU KNOW HIM!! DO YOU KNOW HIM!!!

 

[Bad_Influence]

I know the tooth fairy and the easter bunny if that helps?

 

[bhgxusa0123]

I know the tooth fairy and the easter bunny if that helps?

I bet you know them since you're in forums and not working

 

[Bad_Influence]

I bet you know them since you're in forums and not working

Shhhhh...... Don't be a grass. lol

 

[Altair]

Are you an atheist?

Yes. I'm an atheist.

 

[Altair]

I'm not an atheist. I believe in God. But I don't believe in Christianity or the Christian's definition of God (he is 1/3rd of the holy spirit, the father and son). I believe he isn't a fraction (1/3rd) but he is whole.

You believe in GOD?...Which one specifically?

 

[Altair]

You are right I am not a Christian by that definition.
I am a Christian according the Words of God. If the Holy Spirit is person and not just a person, a (God), why he has never speak with God or Jesus or both? Or they speak with Him? Show me in the Bible where a can read a word saying to God or Jesus or both. But yet he spoke with humans. Read all the greetings and closing of the apostles. In how many names do they their greetings? So if you want to know more let me know.

Last time MOSES spoke to GOD was on Mount Sinai..When he came back down.. his face was glowing.

Ezekiel speaks of a 'Space ship'. Perhaps there is some truth in the Texts.!

Moses went to the top of Mt Sinai and met a Nuclear powered Alien space ship.

Moses came down all red faced, glowing with radiation..!

Next thing...Burning BUSH.! (When the Alien craft lifted off.)..

 

[Moriarty]

God = God.
Jesus = Son of God who was sacrificed to show gods investment in the people of the world, to learn from jesus and pass all thier sins to him because they had lost thier faith, to re-new thier faith in Gods teachings when he took thier sins to his death.
Holy Spirit = The Godly belief of his worshippers who understood why god gave his son as a sacrifice to them for thier sins, so they could be enlightened.

The trinity is of God Himself, his sacrifice and the faith in the teachings.

By the Trinity one gives ourself to the Holy Spirit, which God had to sacrifice his son Jesus for us to see.

In a literal Theological belief that is the Holy Trinity.

It's pretty basic, but many other religions have used the same mythology of sacrifice what the gods hold dear to attempt to create a utopia for thier subjects.

Almost all with the promise of an "Afterlife".
Be that meeting those who have passed, or 72 virgins (how the hell you could find that many i dont know), being reborn, or an everlasting place of either pleasure or pain.

 

[Magpie]

No long rambling discussion just a diagram I found.


Just to confuse the issue even more.

 

[Magpie]

Well, I see that as a flux capacitor, and although it may take Marty back to 1955, it doesn't address the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God, as in John 14:28.

In fact it is opposite to it. People are like, "Yeah, although Jesus never claimed to be God, we're going to worship him anyway". That's all good and stuff for themselves, but don't think Jesus will support it. In fact, he states that worshipping in truth is vital.

I mean, we could attach many arms to that diagram, and say that these things are God.
We could even chuck the Devil in there too, and have a fourth arm. Because for sure, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not each other, and neither is the Devil. But the Devil is - according to the Bible - the god of this system of things.

Then we have Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma, Parvarti, Ganesha, and many more just from the Hindu origin. Then there are others mentioned in the Bible, such as Astarte, Bel, Nebo, Dagon, Molech.

And others that appear to be nationalistic copies of these Gods, such as Jupiter and Zeus, etc etc and these CAN have arms linked to each other to say that say Zeus is Jupiter, or Hermes is Mercury, etc. Also, both Hermes and Zeus are mentioned in the Bible, when the people went to offer gifts to Paul and Barnabas (Acts 14:11-15). So using that diagram fairly would have to also include these other gods mentioned in the Bible. I mean, they are in there, and the reasoning used in that drawing is that they are not each other, but somehow they are God.

So this also doesn't support a trinity, even though these gods are in the Bible.

Besides that, there is only a metaphorical description of the Holy Spirit being in fact a person. For instance, at Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell on the congregation. Considering it fell on all 120 who were in the upper room, and appeared as fire above all their heads, I don't think it was like a stage diving event, with them passing it around. The description is pretty clear that it wasn't a person. You can read about this in the first say twelve verses of Acts chapter 2.

You got all that from a little diagram.
That's one hell of an admirable mission you're on.

"The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him."

Standard answer I suppose and therein lies the problem for me. Another trinity to consider would be god's qualities - omnipotent, omnipresent and infallible. When you set you god up to be all powerful, everywhere and never wrong then you have covered all your bases, who comes up with these qualities, because god never came down and told us. The people who set up the religion set the rules.

I was brought up a catholic and had to go to a catholic school and church. Religion messes people up. You can't use fear to control people. You can't use false higher knowledge to enslave people. Why would a kind caring god want to be worshipped.

If there was a Jesus then he is the one worthy of worship. God is the Nobodaddy, as Blake liked to call him. God doesn't give a flying fvck about the world so why would you worship him. Jesus is god. God is Jesus

3 is all about numerology, patterns, repetition, control - everyone loves a triangle. In geometrical politics the circle is perceived as the leader but the triangle holds everything together.

Ah! man that last paragraph was a belter so I'm just gonna leave it there.

 

[Moriarty]

It is true that many who call themselves Christian follow the trinity. Nonetheless, it is not a Bible teaching. "Christian" is a disciple of Christ, not a worshipper of him. So if the teacher taught that God was greater than he was - not equal to him - then that's what I'm sticking to.

Other scriptures explain Jesus as the High Priest. If this is true, how can Jesus be a High Priest to himself? The Mosaic Law explains very clearly this role of the High Priest, and there is likewise no ideology that the High Priest ever dared to think he was God himself. In fact, if he didn't follow the procedures right, he could die on entering the temple in an unclean state.

Lol.
Jesus was not a priest, nor a high preist.
He was a symbolic offering to the masses as a way to see and thus repent thier sins through him if they returned to god and lived under his commandments.
It's not rocket science lol

Mosaic law is itself something to consider, irrespective of religous belief.
What does Mosaic mean?
Is it from the belief of Moses?
Or is it the word we use to decribe patterns, both theoretical, theological, rhetorical and scientific?

Whichever way one looks at god, are we not living under those same commandments today?

 

[Moriarty]

Hebrews 4:14: "Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold on to our public declaration of him."



For this one, it is important to consider Matthew 22:36-40. Have a look at this.

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

Which of these two laws are on the Ten Commandments?

The answer is none. When Jesus told the person these commandments, he was quoting from laws of Moses that were not written by "the hand of God" on stone tablets. (Deuteronomy 6:5, 10:12, Leviticus 19:18)
But as Jesus correctly said, the whole law AND the prophets hung on these laws.

So, if Jesus was quoting from other laws, then shouldn't ALL of those Mosaic Laws be followed? There were over 600, including ones where stoning people to death was involved, and the sacrificing of bulls. In this day and age, if I was under the Mosaic Law, I'd have to own a cattle station just to keep up with my errors. And we can't all have cattle stations.

The basis of the laws can be sub-divided.
Mosaic religions have Moral, Social and Ceremonial laws.
As judeo christians we simply look at the Moral, from Deuteronomy 4:13 and 14:-

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might do them in the land which you go over to possess it.

The other parts of testimony are symbolic and as such are questionable in faith.

While I do understand your statement that Jesus was a high priest, according to there own testiment he cannot have been, because he was not a man.
He was the son of god, hence not born of man.

 

[Moriarty]

This raises two points:

1) Can a son of God be a man (or woman)?
2) Was Jesus a man?

Let me address this one at a time below.

Can a Son of God be a Human?

Romans 8:14-17 shows Paul - a human and a man, as well as his audience there in the Roman congregation (men and women), as "sons of God". Here's the section of scripture:



This section is also important for defining that there is a difference between the position Jesus holds and the position God holds.

Paul says, "If, then, we are children, we are also heirs - heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ..."

So he defines being an heir OF God, but a joint heir WITH Christ.

So, just as in Revelation, where Jesus speaks from heaven and is demonstrating that Jesus has a God, and Jesus' own name and position is distinct from God - separate - , Paul here is also defining the role of an heir. An heir OF God, but a joint heir WITH Christ. Once again, it shows that Jesus refers to his human counterparts as his "brothers", and God as his "Father". There is a massive difference.

In relation to this point raised, this section of scripture shows that a man can indeed be a son of God. So being a son of god does not have anything to do with not being born of a man. I mean, although it doesn't say who Paul's parents were, nor anybody else's in the Roman congregation, we can assume they did have mothers and fathers. Of course, it isn't the only form of "sons of God" used in the scriptures, as the first mention of them is in Genesis and refers to the angels. Nonetheless, this is not the only occurrence, as is demonstrated. So, let's address the second part.

Was Jesus a Human?

According to Philippians 2:5-11, an explanation about Jesus' role is explained, and identifies him as a human. Not a half man/half god, or some other hybrid. It says this:



Sub-point
Often, people prefer to use the King James Bible version, written in 1611 to quote from, as it appears at first glance to support - at least in part - the idea that Jesus didn't consider it wrong to consider equality with God. Other translations copy this example.
But the problem is it is written in Archaeic English, and not modern English. The meanings differ. The expression "thought it not", as in "Did you think of breaking that window?" and the answer being, "I thought it not", is not used in modern English. Yet, this is the context written in that Bible.
There are many translations that write it differently to the "thought it not robbery to be equal to God", who are honest enough to recognise that it is not consistent with the scripture itself, nor the rest of the Bible (American Standard Version, New World Translation, Berean Study Bible, Lexham English Bible, World English Bible, New Heart English Bible, Weymouth New Testament, to name a few).
Additionally, if we were to have the same mind in us that Jesus had, we too should think it not robbery to be equal to God, according to that reasoning. Of course, we should know better than thinking we are anything near to God in so many ways.

Nonetheless, I digress a little, although I thought it important to at least highlight that point.

The scripture states that Jesus "emptied himself, and became a human". So, firstly, he was a human.

Well, that's all good and fine, but what about this "emptying himself"? Does not that show that he was God or something?

The Bible shows that Jesus existed before his coming to earth. He had a pre-human existence. But that does not mean he was not a man when he was here on earth. Likewise, this also does not mean he was God either.

The corresponding ransom to God was a "soul for soul", as stated in the Mosaic Law. This is also why Jesus symbolically has the remembrance of himself being represented by emblems of wine and bread. They represent what Jesus sacrificed. Yes, Jesus was resurrected by God, but this having flesh and blood were not given to him. After his ascension to heaven, his sacrifice was offered before God. God resurrected him as a spirit creature again, like his pre-human existence. But that does not mean that his life on earth was anything more than a man. Jesus himself said that his apostles would also perform works like Jesus, and even said they'd perform "works greater than these". Of course, their flesh and blood as sinful humans - having inherited sin from their genealogy - could not buy mankind from the curse of death that Adam sold us into.

Based on this, there is nothing in the scriptures supporting Jesus as not being a man, making the possibility of some form of contradiction to the fact that he is described as a High Priest. And if he is a High Priest, he is not God, as the High Priest did not only offer up sacrifices to God for the people, but firstly had to offer up sacrifices for himself. Jesus, being sinless, did not need to do this, but that his role is to be a "mediator" and a "representative" of God. Also, the fact that he calls those chosen to rule with him "brothers" again shows he is not God.

If anyone is interested in seeing a short video of how Jesus' sacrifice was prefigured by the Mosaic Law, here it is. It goes for about 3 1/2 minutes.

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=share&wtlocale=E&lank=docid-1001072324_1_VIDEO

You quote the basis of it in :-
"For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!”
The key word being "Adoption".

Whereas Jesus was the son of god who had to empty himself of the god's will to become human.

Is that possible?
I dont know, but it does ask a question.
If Jesus had to empty himself of god to be divine yet we have to fill ourselves with god to be so, what does that mean?

 

[ladymuck]

This is why everyone should study the Bible and make up their own minds about what to believe, instead of allowing others to force their own beliefs on them. Why are so many people afraid of doing that.....is their faith so tenuous?

 

[Moriarty]

This is why everyone should study the Bible and make up their own minds about what to believe, instead of allowing others to force their own beliefs on them. Why are so many people afraid of doing that.....is their faith so tenuous?

Because if you ask 10 people who witness an accident what happened you will get at least 5 different stories.
Whereas, in reality the accident happened the way it did.
Human perception is flawed.
That is why we question witnesses at an accident scene and debate religion, philosophy, science, morality etc etc etc.
To attempt to find real truth, not just one's opinions of "How it is seen".