A curious question from a newbie (across the pond) to UK natives

[Ian_Massachusetts]

Hello, thank you for visiting. I am curious if anyone born and raised in London be considered as English despite of his/her ethnic origin? Some time ago, we had three employees from the London office who came and work in Massachusetts (US). Mark who is a Caucasian (from Midland) referred to himself as English. Yet, when he introduced his other two colleagues John (Italian decent) and DeVinda (Indian decent) both born and raised in London, Mark referred to them as British. I know the formal authoritative definition of English, Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish, and British. How do you, as a native, look upon yourself and your fellow countrymen? Does race and ethnicity play a role in how you look at each other? Thank you in advance for your candor.

 

[TheBabayaga]

Hello, thank you for visiting. I am curious if anyone born and raised in London be considered as English despite of his/her ethnic origin? Some time ago, we had three employees from the London office who came and work in Massachusetts (US). Mark who is a Caucasian (from Midland) referred to himself as English. Yet, when he introduced his other two colleagues John (Italian decent) and DeVinda (Indian decent) both born and raised in London, Mark referred to them as British. I know the formal authoritative definition of English, Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish, and British. How do you, as a native, look upon yourself and your fellow countrymen? Does race and ethnicity play a role in how you look at each other? Thank you in advance for your candor.

yea, am afraid at best its called up his own ass, and at worst , racism.

 

[Claire8]

Hello, thank you for visiting. I am curious if anyone born and raised in London be considered as English despite of his/her ethnic origin? Some time ago, we had three employees from the London office who came and work in Massachusetts (US). Mark who is a Caucasian (from Midland) referred to himself as English. Yet, when he introduced his other two colleagues John (Italian decent) and DeVinda (Indian decent) both born and raised in London, Mark referred to them as British. I know the formal authoritative definition of English, Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish, and British. How do you, as a native, look upon yourself and your fellow countrymen? Does race and ethnicity play a role in how you look at each other? Thank you in advance for your candor.

I agree with thebaba tbf, to me if a person is born here then, that makes them English/British, I am British and English whatever, I live in Wales and I know some here say they are Welsh and British as they aren't English in Wales. I come from Irish decent but don't class myself as Irish. Mark needs to get a grip tbh, people are people end of!

 

[Claire8]

Hello, thank you for visiting. I am curious if anyone born and raised in London be considered as English despite of his/her ethnic origin? Some time ago, we had three employees from the London office who came and work in Massachusetts (US). Mark who is a Caucasian (from Midland) referred to himself as English. Yet, when he introduced his other two colleagues John (Italian decent) and DeVinda (Indian decent) both born and raised in London, Mark referred to them as British. I know the formal authoritative definition of English, Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish, and British. How do you, as a native, look upon yourself and your fellow countrymen? Does race and ethnicity play a role in how you look at each other? Thank you in advance for your candor.

To me I'd ask the individual what they prefer to be classed as, its a joke in a way people are like this in this day and age anyway tbh

 

[paolinho]

Its likely they are British/Italian and British/Indian respectively, Therefore Mark is being inclusive, rather than 'casting' them aside.

 

[TheBabayaga]

Its likely they are British/Italian and British/Indian respectively, Therefore Mark is being inclusive, rather than 'casting' them aside.

it would have been easier on the tongue to just simply state " we are all English, rather than i'm big daddy bigshot b**** and these here are my asslickers...yea he didn't say those exact words but I bet he was thinking it!

 

[WickedPerdition]

yea, am afraid at best its called up his own ass, and at worst , racism.

I didn't interpret what the man in this scenario stated as either arrogant or racist. In fact, I may have said exactly the same thing myself.
I regard myself primarily as English, and hesitatingly, as British. I was born in England, ergo I am English.
I also have no qualms about stating that I am English even though it is out of vogue to admit it.
I get sick and tired of people who are born in the U.K. claiming to be of any other nationality.
Regardless of where your parents originate from, the country where you are born IS your nationality.
Anyone making a point of their parents', or even their grandparents' nationalities, is in my opinion, simply hanging on to the past.
It's not a case of racism. It's a case of nationalism.

 

[Wojcik]

Hello, thank you for visiting. I am curious if anyone born and raised in London be considered as English despite of his/her ethnic origin? Some time ago, we had three employees from the London office who came and work in Massachusetts (US). Mark who is a Caucasian (from Midland) referred to himself as English. Yet, when he introduced his other two colleagues John (Italian decent) and DeVinda (Indian decent) both born and raised in London, Mark referred to them as British. I know the formal authoritative definition of English, Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish, and British. How do you, as a native, look upon yourself and your fellow countrymen? Does race and ethnicity play a role in how you look at each other? Thank you in advance for your candor.

It's quite a complicated subject matter over here. When someone asks what my National Identity is, i respond that it's English. But i don't mind being referred to as British either. So Mark in that scenario may have referred to them as their chosen identities. I know a lot of Italians who are proud of their culture and heritage, as well as Indians. So referring to them as British Indian, or British Italian, would be the correct way.
Race and ethnicity does play an important role because it helps you understand that person's religion, culture and heritage, and you're able to make friendships and strengthen bonds based on that if you choose to.

Having said that, you do have to be careful, because a lot of people don't like being labelled as British, and prefer their own National Identity instead. Take Scottish and Irish people as an example. I wouldn't recommend ever calling them British, as that could cause a bit of a stir.

 

[Wojcik]

I didn't interpret what the man in this scenario stated as either arrogant or racist. In fact, I may have said exactly the same thing myself.
I regard myself primarily as English, and hesitatingly, as British. I was born in England, ergo I am English.
I also have no qualms about stating that I am English even though it is out of vogue to admit it.
I get sick and tired of people who are born in the U.K. claiming to be of any other nationality.
Regardless of where your parents originate from, the country where you are born IS your nationality.
Anyone making a point of their parents', or even their grandparents' nationalities, is in my opinion, simply hanging on to the past.
It's not a case of racism. It's a case of nationalism.

No, me neither. Unless Babayaga read that Mark identified as English, and that he happened to be Caucasian, and then automatically thought the very worst in Mark as a person because of his identity. But the English identity has always been tarred with a brush compared to other Nationalities, and the St George's flag has been linked to racism, because extreme groups have used those flags in their rallies and events in the past. So i understand why English Nationalism and National identity has become this taboo subject across Europe.

 

[Ian_Massachusetts]

My many thanks to Wojcik, WickedPerdition, TheBabayaga, paolinho, and Claire8 for all your candor to my question. This is exactly what I was looking for from those who actually live and breathe in the UK. It seems that no matter where one lives, politics, history, cultures, and diversities always play a significant role in all our lives. The main differences are the labels and how they impact the lives under those influences. I gave each of you a like as my grateful acknowledgement to your feedback. Thank you all!

 

[TheBabayaga]

My many thanks to Wojcik, WickedPerdition, TheBabayaga, paolinho, and Claire8 for all your candor to my question. This is exactly what I was looking for from those who actually live and breathe in the UK. It seems that no matter where one lives, politics, history, cultures, and diversities always play a significant role in all our lives. The main differences are the labels and how they impact the lives under those influences. I gave each of you a like as my grateful acknowledgement to your feedback. Thank you all!

Every little helps!...that's quote from turn a blind eye to child labour and farmer oppressing tesco....but that's another story for another day.

 

[clactonolderguy]

my look at this as born In London Uk is simple. I used to call myself British as did everybody else I know unless clearly not eg Irish. over last couple of decades we increasingly have people declining British and claiming own nationality eg Scottish.Welsh etc and NOT wanting to be called British which is a combined Uk wide address for people living in UK. now I call myself English as aware increasing push to break up Uk and have several countries. It is correct to call yourself British if born in Uk or Welsh when born there OR if Welsh or Scottish. Having been to Scotland and made aware some ( not all) have a chip on shoulder against English for historical and educational reasons. It gets easier to see why some would want call themselves from a specific part of UK rather than just British, sort of flag waving nationalistic stuff. oddly we do not follow American idea? . Where they say I am American Irish or American ..whatever. nobody calls them selves British Welsh for example. Uk is in fact slowly devolving into 3 countries sort of opposite of EU where countries are evolving to merge. There is little Doubt Scotland will at some point go independent as soon as it feels it is economically no longer dependent on rest of UK and in particular England. no doubt a few will get angry at my outlook but its just an opinion don't take it personally. America might have got it right when they do no see themselves as Texan Americans or Idaho American but American Plain and simple . Many with chip on shoulder?from history will claim to be African American etc citing where forefathers came from and to my mind not really being a full 'American' supporter. for my side my mother is not English but I claim to be English through and through with full support . for example would fight for Uk ( as still see myself as British despite Scottish and Welsh antipathy to English) You will find many in life now brought up having very different value sand outlooks. politically correct .woke ..etc seeing world through different coloured lens and even here in Uk we have stated seeing statues defied and damaged by those with backward looking inward mindset claiming to be doing 'right thing' and in fact being self serving rather than all inclusive. rant over . have a nice day ..

 

[Oswestrian]

I'm about to give you an explanation that everybody will agree with. Being "English" is very often interchangeably used as either one's nationality or one's ethnicity. (This is why they call me the King of ukchat.)

During the Middle Ages the English identified themselves as being either "Norman, Saxon or Dane".

Bede (an Anglo-Saxon monk in the monastery of Jarrow, wrote The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which he completed in 731AD) gave a precise date, 449AD, for the first arrival of the Anglo-Saxons and he said they came from three tribes: the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who themselves came from different parts of Germany and Denmark – the Angles were from Angeln, which is a small district in northern Germany; the Saxons were from what is now Lower Saxony, also in northern Germany; and the Jutes were from Jutland, now part of Denmark. According to Bede the Angles settled in East Anglia, the Saxons in southern England, and the Jutes in Kent and the Isle of Wigh

Our Migration Story: The Making of Britain

The Anglo-Saxon invasion and the beginnings of the 'English'

www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk

 

[hell2bwith76]

I didn't interpret what the man in this scenario stated as either arrogant or racist. In fact, I may have said exactly the same thing myself.
I regard myself primarily as English, and hesitatingly, as British. I was born in England, ergo I am English.
I also have no qualms about stating that I am English even though it is out of vogue to admit it.
I get sick and tired of people who are born in the U.K. claiming to be of any other nationality.
Regardless of where your parents originate from, the country where you are born IS your nationality.
Anyone making a point of their parents', or even their grandparents' nationalities, is in my opinion, simply hanging on to the past.
It's not a case of racism. It's a case of nationalism.

I consider that if you are born and grow up in any country it`s best to class yourself as that Nationality firstly. You can always state or trace your Ancestry for any other reference. my opinion.
I have a Red on White GB sign on my car number plates .

Lord knows what a Geordie can class themselves as . They don`t talk English or Scottish

 

[TheBabayaga]

I'm about to give you an explanation that everybody will agree with. Being "English" is very often interchangeably used as either one's nationality or one's ethnicity. (This is why they call me the King of ukchat.)

During the Middle Ages the English identified themselves as being either "Norman, Saxon or Dane".

Bede (an Anglo-Saxon monk in the monastery of Jarrow, wrote The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which he completed in 731AD) gave a precise date, 449AD, for the first arrival of the Anglo-Saxons and he said they came from three tribes: the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who themselves came from different parts of Germany and Denmark – the Angles were from Angeln, which is a small district in northern Germany; the Saxons were from what is now Lower Saxony, also in northern Germany; and the Jutes were from Jutland, now part of Denmark. According to Bede the Angles settled in East Anglia, the Saxons in southern England, and the Jutes in Kent and the Isle of Wigh

Our Migration Story: The Making of Britain

The Anglo-Saxon invasion and the beginnings of the 'English'

www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk

Impressive....King of chat is well deserved...I'm just the King, of everywhere..

 

[liam222]

Most people want to identify as the nationality of their parents from my experience

They'd probably call themselves both

 

[TheBabayaga]

you are what you eat.. so if you like bacon and eggs, youre a greedy pig. and thats that.

 

[BronzeSquirrel]

It depends how you wish to see yourself. If I was born in America, of English and Welsh parents, I'd say I was Anglo American. Perhaps some people don't want to diminish their heritage and prefer to be called Anglo Indian or just Indian, or Chinese. It's a personal thing, personal to them. What if you're born in Spain of English parents who then take you to live in England? Does that make you Spanish or English? I have friends born in England from Jamaican parents who have lived here all their lives but have now retired to Jamaica. They see themselves as Jamaican. Because that's their heritage. Who the hell is anyone else to say different?